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Older workers can complement Gen Z skills

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lamoe

Anyone notice that the Gen Z worker is in a low technical skill but high social skill position?

Just indicative of the major aspects (faults) of the young - didn't we all? suffered from them until we actually grew up.

"I know everything about everything - just ask me  - better yet -  I'll tell you without being asked"

Inability to admit when proven wrong is any aspect of their opinions.

Don't realize that in school it's what you know - in the real world it's what you can do.

 

17 hours ago, Cgu said:

No, I wouldnt. Why?  I am sure they have good skills, but other skills are needed.

Good skills relate to good pay - your "other" skills may relate to better pay but -

Wanna take a guess how many "other skill" positions their are?

The number of degreed engineers actually working in the cutting edge of their field is very very small -  my guess in on the other of less than 1 in >1,000 - the rest do work that is the same to what has been done for decades.

Size 5 motor starter requires what size wire, circuit breakers, control circuit layout?

Bragging time - have gotten inquiries from headhunters via e-mail asking if I'm interested in doing consulting work - would require extensive travel in US - my date of birth is inferred on my resume (military service dates) - place of residence isn't - don't need the money or the stress.

 

17 hours ago, Cgu said:

Well, per example look at some IT jobs

But do not bother if you do not have these skills...

 "You cannot compare technology to 5 or even 10 years ago."

So what you learned today will obsolete? OR, still viable since a very very small percentage of positions require the absolute latest technology? See my 1 in 1,000 or more guess.

As for the 2nd - was the head of engineering groups for several companies (Barber Greene, Presitec, Contec Controls, Pallet Management Systems) - must know how to manage others / projects = prime requirement.

From your 2nd link. What no Masters or PHD? - note the OR. I will admit before the "everyone MUST have a college degree" mentality I was an OR. Until I realized I had an EE equivalency.

"BS/BA in computer science or equivalent combination of education and experience. We are more interested in passion for technology and what you are capable of, than we are academic qualifications"

Example time: stated many many times (:rolleyes:) Had a degreed engineer quit because I didn't have one - took over his portion on the project as well as my own responsibilities until replacement hired. Company filed for several patents based on my concepts.

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Cgu
9 hours ago, Paddy said:

 

“Passion in software development, but get even more satisfaction having left hands-on work behind to focus on helping your team do great work and improve their skill set.

Strong organisational and change management skills with demonstrated ability to prioritise.

Able to take High level of responsibility and able to make good leadership decisions based on an excellent understanding of business requirements.“

How long do you think you will have the required technical skills (in an ever changing environment) if you took this job (the second one listed)? My bolding of the requirement.

And, yes, I can claim a couple of the technical skills. No problem with the additional requirements listed. 
 

You may have all of the technical skills required, but if you cannot work with the (inexperienced youngster and unlearned new skill but experienced oldster) colleagues you get and upon whom you depend to get it right, I doubt success will be just around the corner.

Good luck with your career. The next time a group of outsourced wizard programmers trash my bank’s systems such that I can’t access my accounts, I’ll think of you. 

PS. When the bank’s systems are trashed next, it will be modern implementations of ancient concepts that save the day- backups, restore points, solid transaction management etc.

Most of theseypung guys have thesoft skills. Knowing all these technical skills, means mostly they have worked in scrum teams and you need tobe able to lead a team (normally rotating roles). Also, most with these skills need to demonstrate public work or published work. It isnot like old times, people share theur work like on github or give te hnical advice l8ke on stackoverflow. You have to be able to show that. So today young people are uaed to expose their work to the whole world and be able to handle critisism and debatein much more open way.

Look at some comments above....most older people cannot discuss it this way and on top of it you cannot hide behind statements, you have to show your public work and discussion. 

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Cgu
7 hours ago, lamoe said:

"I know everything about everything - just ask me  - better yet -  I'll tell you without being asked"

Inability to admit when proven wrong is any aspect of their opinions.

I think this is mor an oldet generation attitude. Look around in some current discussions (I just saw some claims in the virus discussion I could hardly believe. "I predicted..or I predict" without any published work where the whole world can give their input...).

Or just look above through some comments, if it does not suit their view, they go off like little kids...(BS that, this guy ....etc.). A mirror would be good.

In todays work place you cannot hide anymore ( at least if you are in high tech environment). Most work needs to be published and discussed in public. You need to proof your statements with your work, not only references or some statements. 

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lamoe
1 hour ago, Cgu said:

I think this is mor an oldet generation attitude. Look around in some current discussions (I just saw some claims in the virus discussion I could hardly believe. "I predicted..or I predict" without any published work where the whole world can give their input...).

Or just look above through some comments, if it does not suit their view, they go off like little kids...(BS that, this guy ....etc.). A mirror would be good.

In todays work place you cannot hide anymore ( at least if you are in high tech environment). Most work needs to be published and discussed in public. You need to proof your statements with your work, not only references or some statements. 

Edit: added an a. Long post didn't want anyone trying to sport the differences.

I can see where the 1st impression is valid and even to some extent the 2nd.

You're not paranoid if someone is really following you and you're not a know it all if you really know what you're talking about  - either via formal education or experience (which in itself is a form of education).

My work was published for peer review. That does not mean I'm an expert on every subject. However not being a published expert does not preclude me from having informed opinions on various other subjects based on experience / knowledge.

You can ask many of us oldsters who have responded to you a question on almost any subject other than exact details in a particular field (such at the chemical makeup of acetylsalicylic acid - knew the technical name but not expression for Aspirin -  C9H8O4 ) and we can provide a reasonably informed answer.

Whereas the much of the younger generation can't and therefore might resent being so ignorant. And they are ignorant (does not mean unintelligent -  those words do tend to get  mixed up) of many things having never experienced them to any extent. Therefor they haven't acquired the peripheral knowledge that comes with simply living.

I should add "living off  campus" - which is why so many college professors seem so ignorant concerning real life.

I.E.  Fascism (a form of economy) vs Dictatorial (a form of gov typically needed to make it work).

"In todays work place you cannot hide anymore ( at least if you are in high tech environment)"

That statement is very conflating. It is very easy to hide in today's workplace, but I will concede not so easy in a front line high tech environment one. Manager? Again easy, as long as your team produces.

High tech IT jobs are the not only ones available. They represent only a very very small fraction of the technical positions available in today's marketplace.

Knowing how to prep and correctly paint a room is actually a  very technical endeavor which, as a profession, can offer better pay than most college degrees.
 

Quote

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/technical

Definition of technical

1a : having special and usually practical knowledge especially of a mechanical or scientific subject

 // a technical consultant

b : marked by or characteristic of specialization

// technical language

of or relating to technique

 

 

Edited by lamoe
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to_dave007
21 hours ago, Cgu said:

Haven't met any baby boomer who can actually master the technical skills needed in high tech. 

How do you as the resident guru define "high tech".. Exactly what is "high tech"?

For example..  would it include:

  • encrypted bank to bank communications (for example to automate the SWIFT system)?
  • control of the 737 Max MCAS system or a nuclear reactor or automated train control system?
  • automation of an MRI machine?
  • the latest version of the operating system you hold in your hand?
  • Shop floor software at GM or Toyota?
  • automation of the Intel chip making process? 

If you haven't met a baby boomer who can master the technical skills in these areas..  you may wish to seek a career upgrade to give you a chance before they are no longer available to help you broaden your skills.

Edited by to_dave007

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Cgu
2 minutes ago, to_dave007 said:

you may wish to seek a career upgrade

Will do in time, but I am fine at the moment, no upgrade needed.

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lamoe
2 minutes ago, Cgu said:

Will do in time, but I am fine at the moment, no upgrade needed.

Went through at lest 4 over the years

Finally crashed the system and became a salesman (technical) - made a boatload more money

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to_dave007
29 minutes ago, Cgu said:

Will do in time, but I am fine at the moment, no upgrade needed.

You may have missed the question I asked you...

How do you define "high tech".. Exactly what is "high tech"?

For example..  would it include:

  • encrypted bank to bank communications (for example to automate the SWIFT system)?
  • control of the 737 Max MCAS system or a nuclear reactor or automated train control system?
  • automation of an MRI machine?
  • the latest version of the operating system you hold in your hand?
  • Shop floor software at GM or Toyota?
  • automation of the Intel chip making process? 
Edited by to_dave007

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Paddy

@cgu. I have mentored a variety of people towards a variety of goals and I have developed talks to young adults about ways and means to achieve their life and career objectives as they join the workforce. One of the topics I cover is a person’s relationships with their co-workers. One of my points is that you need your co-workers (for you to succeed) and that one day, maybe, one of them will be your boss. Learning how to be diplomatic, a soft skill, is a good idea. Based on your published work here, you may have missed that class?

I think you make some very valid points - but in a manner likely to generate less than optimum responses. There are differences between the generations in your teams. Quite possibly frustrating differences. Make those differences work for you rather than against you and I’ll applaud. Complain about them, but do nothing about them, be glad I’m not your boss (and if I was and was also either not recognizing the issue or not doing something about it, you would be right to complain about me).

I think you need to realize that you work with the current “methodology du jour”. Your methodology has evolved from previous ones and will continue to evolve to a point where (even) you may not recognize it. In fact, I’m prepared to predict that 😄 

The specific tools you work with today have also evolved and will no doubt lose their relevance over time. You might discover that what counts more is concept and general applicability. For example, inter-unit (of whatever type) messaging has been around since before the Romans. They did it with water over short distances. We do it electronically over any distance in a variety of forms. Who knows how messaging will be implemented in 50 years time?

As has been said, comparatively few people work on the bleeding edge of technology. Most of us work in more mundane areas and tend not to be measured by published works and peer review. We’re measured on delivering on time, on budget and at the right level of quality. We’re measured on transaction throughput, average handle time, customer satisfaction scores and sales volumes etc. We’re still measured but it’s just differently. Vive la difference, hien?

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Cgu
3 hours ago, to_dave007 said:

You may have missed the question I asked you...

How do you define "high tech".. Exactly what is "high tech"?

For example..  would it include:

  • encrypted bank to bank communications (for example to automate the SWIFT system)?
  • control of the 737 Max MCAS system or a nuclear reactor or automated train control system?
  • automation of an MRI machine?
  • the latest version of the operating system you hold in your hand?
  • Shop floor software at GM or Toyota?
  • automation of the Intel chip making process? 

None of the above (maybe the last, depending..or). 

All these built on top of certain software architecture. New software (and IT) architectures is where the innovation lies. 

Cloud and a degree of AI is pushing people and technology to the limit. Software can nowadays composed very fast. You could easily have any basic services up and running in a couple of hours, what would have taken years around 15 years ago. Just pick the services you need to put your new service together. No need for for software or hardware components. Just spin up a server and select the services you need:

https://aws.amazon.com/products/

Try it...you might have some fun sending you an alarm on yout phone when the beer in the fridge has the right temperature.:cool:

Even The whole NASDAQ exchange and transaction is running on it, never mind some SWIFT or OS.

The next will be serverless architecture, that will remove one more component and that the cloud services are getting even smarter using AI.

And to think it all started to change with the 2 pizza team philosophie...

 

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lamoe
33 minutes ago, Cgu said:

None of the above (maybe the last, depending..or). 

All these built on top of certain software architecture. New software (and IT) architectures is where the innovation lies. 

Cloud and a degree of AI is pushing people and technology to the limit. Software can nowadays composed very fast. You could easily have any basic services up and running in a couple of hours, what would have taken years around 15 years ago. Just pick the services you need to put your new service together. No need for for software or hardware components. Just spin up a server and select the services you need:

https://aws.amazon.com/products/

Try it...you might have some fun sending you an alarm on yout phone when the beer in the fridge has the right temperature.:cool:

Even The whole NASDAQ exchange and transaction is running on it, never mind some SWIFT or OS.

The next will be serverless architecture, that will remove one more component and that the cloud services are getting even smarter using AI.

And to think it all started to change with the 2 pizza team philosophie...

 

"The next will be serverless architecture, that will remove one more component and that the cloud services are getting even smarter using AI"

I understand the "cloud" and AI very well so not pooh poohing simply because I don't.

Reliance on one new aspect of any process without through vetting and backup systems / methods in place is a recipe for disaster.

The following alludes to having gained knowledge through experience.

Old timer analogy "Yes we have no bananas" and

Quote

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superiority_(short_story)

The story was at one point required reading for an industrial design course at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

 

 

Edited by lamoe

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