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topcat72m

Buying a Lot in Minglanilla/Naga

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topcat72m
2 hours ago, Paddy said:

The actual land (at least) won’t be part of your estate since only Filipinos can fully own land here. Essentially, you will be giving it to her from the get go. 

Yea. That's ok. 

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topcat72m

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to take it and not buy a Lot. 

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Maldita23

We purchased Farm Land with Tax Dec only. We'd like to think we did  due diligence. Here's what we did:

 

1. We asked the owner/buyer for copies of Certified true copy of  Tax Dec and Tax Clearance. (Municipal Assessors Office)

2. We asked for Technical Description of the Land. ( DENR ) Oh, another thing, you might as well get Certificate of Alienable and Disposable. 

3. We double check with the Provincial Assessors Office if the records at the Municipal Assessors matches. 

4. Verify with RD if the land belongs to somebody else other than the seller. I can not verify this, but lands with Tax Dec  only has to pass through RD for registration. We registered our current purchased. 

5. Re-surveyed the land. The surveyor needs the Deed of Sale and technical description to do this. 

6. You can have it titled through Pre-Patent (DENR) or through Judicial Court. 

Edited by Maldita23
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Davaoeno
On 11/4/2019 at 10:15 PM, Paddy said:

Indirect land ownership by corporations is possible but has several restrictions when foreigners are involved

What is " indirect ownership by corporation "  ?? Either the corp owns it or it doesn't  own it . 

There are no restrictions on land ownership by corps.

There are restrictions on foreigners participation in corps though .   [ only up to 40%  and the foreigner cant be an Officer of the corp  - only the Corporate Chairman ]

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to_dave007
1 hour ago, Maldita23 said:

We purchased Farm Land with Tax Dec only. We'd like to think we did  due diligence. Here's what we did:

 

1. We asked the owner/buyer for copies of Certified true copy of  Tax Dec and Tax Clearance. (Municipal Assessors Office)

2. We asked for Technical Description of the Land. ( DENR ) Oh, another thing, you might as well get Certificate of Alienable and Disposable. 

3. We double check with the Provincial Assessors Office if the records at the Municipal Assessors matches. 

4. Verify with RD if the land belongs to somebody else other than the seller. I can not verify this, but lands with Tax Dec  only has to pass through RD for registration. We registered our current purchased. 

5. Re-surveyed the land. The surveyor needs the Deed of Sale and technical description to do this. 

6. You can have it titled through Pre-Patent (DENR) or through Judicial Court. 

How do you verify that no OLD title existed.. even 50 or 100 years ago?

The property that my wife and I bought was Tax Dec.. but there was an old title registered back in 1974.. and it was never updated even though 2 generations died and no estate taxes paid and the big lot was severed into 14 smaller ones..  of which we bought several.

To your list above I wonder about adding:

  • Request from buyer his own Deed of Sale..  which you don't mention above.
  •  Is there some check that can be done at Land Title Office in city to confirm that no title ever existed?
  • Trace Back on Tax Dec at local registrar office to see all registered owners back to certain date.
  • I'd want to compile a family tree from today back to the last date when absolutely GOOD records exist..  and make sure I have birth and death cert for as many as possible of those in the tree.  mIt can be a ROYAL pain to gather this information after seller has been paid..  so I would try to get it up front.. BEFORE money changes hands.
  • How do you verify that the property is free of some ancestral claim? 

I'm not authoritative on this.. but have been a bit burned by how big of an issue it's been to get clear Title (which by the way arrived in my hands just YESTERDAY - off to verify authenticy tomorrow but I think will be clean). The whole process has taken 6 years.  There IS one remaining issue..  and that is a 2 year waiting period, from the date of public notice (in the news paper) to see if there is any ancestral claim.. This period expires 10 June 2020..  a date you can be sure is marked in my calendar.  Free chicken and beer to any LINC member who comes to my place for the first Friday AFTER that date. 

Edited by to_dave007
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Maldita23
4 minutes ago, to_dave007 said:

How do you verify that no OLD title existed.. even 50 or 100 years ago?

The property that my wife and I bought was Tax Dec.. but there was an old title registered back in 1974.. and it was never updated even though 2 generations died and no estate taxes paid and the big lot was severed into 14 smaller ones..  of which we bought several.

To your list above I wonder about adding:

  • Request from buyer his own Deed of Sale..  which you don't mention above.
  •  Is there some check that can be done at Land Title Office in city to confirm that no title ever existed?
  • Trace Back on Tax Dec at local registrar office to see all registered owners back to certain date.
  • I'd want to compile a family tree from today back to the last date when absolutely GOOD records exist..  and make sure I have birth and death cert for as many as possible of those in the tree.  mIt can be a ROYAL pain to gather this information after seller has been paid..  so I would try to get it up front.. BEFORE money changes hands.
  • How do you verify that the property is free of some ancestral claim? 

I'm not authoritative on this.. but have been a bit burned by how big of an issue it's been to get clear Title (which by the way arrived in my hands just YESTERDAY - off to verify authenticy tomorrow but I think will be clean)

I forgot to mentioned the Tracer yes (DENR). It will show the previous ownership of the property. And it is also a good idea to get the DOA from the seller or any proof how he acquired the property he is selling. 

I went to RD and showed them my Tax Dec, then I asked them if there's Registered Title for the land we are purchasing. I was not given any paper or certification that there was none. All they said was, our  land is not in the Registry of Deeds. Our land is classified as  agricultural and has never been titled. I am pretty sure our land has no existing title because we were able to get Certificate of Alienable and Disposable from the DENR. 

Registry of Deeds is supposed to be for titled land only but they have changed it now, and required land with Tax Dec only to be registered as well. We were the first registered owner of our land in RD's record. 

Bring your title to RD for verification. 

So the Tax Dec and the title are not of the same name?

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Maldita23
18 minutes ago, Maldita23 said:

I forgot to mentioned the Tracer yes (DENR). It will show the previous ownership of the property. And it is also a good idea to get the DOA from the seller or any proof how he acquired the property he is selling. 

I went to RD and showed them my Tax Dec, then I asked them if there's Registered Title for the land we are purchasing. I was not given any paper or certification that there was none. All they said was, our  land is not in the Registry of Deeds. Our land is classified as  agricultural and has never been titled. I am pretty sure our land has no existing title because we were able to get Certificate of Alienable and Disposable from the DENR. 

Registry of Deeds is supposed to be for titled land only but they have changed it now, and required land with Tax Dec only to be registered as well. We were the first registered owner of our land in RD's record. 

Bring your title to RD for verification. 

So the Tax Dec and the title are not of the same name?

Oh sorry, of course it is not of the same name. 

Your's is way more challenging. 

Good to learn that process as well, in case we encounter that in the future you never know. 

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to_dave007
27 minutes ago, Maldita23 said:

So the Tax Dec and the title are not of the same name?

for all lots, title was in name of husband and wife long deceased..  even their sole child deceased also.  Property had been inherited by grandson (who paid no estate taxes) and who sold two Tax Dec lots to me, and I  bought 3 other lots from others who had earlier bought from the same grandson.

Looking back..  Man I was naïve !!!  Never again.

But I stuck to it..  and got some GREAT help from a lady here..  and eventually it got done.  Once I get some time I may write it up for a LINC thread.

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Maldita23
46 minutes ago, to_dave007 said:

for all lots, title was in name of husband and wife long deceased..  even their sole child deceased also.  Property had been inherited by grandson (who paid no estate taxes) and who sold two Tax Dec lots to me, and I  bought 3 other lots from others who had earlier bought from the same grandson.

Looking back..  Man I was naïve !!!  Never again.

But I stuck to it..  and got some GREAT help from a lady here..  and eventually it got done.  Once I get some time I may write it up for a LINC thread.

I naively purchased another Tax Dec Land before as well.  Definitely learned my bitter lesson. 

Two Grandsons sold me a Tax Dec Land. The title is still in their Grandparents name. The grandparents died. The grandparents children are still alive. They verbally distributed their parent's lands and properties. The parents of my seller died and was not able to have this land transferred to their name or to their sons' name. And no one is taking care of the taxes. 

I was enticed by the land's cheap price and of course by the fact that I can pay stagger. My parents convinced me to buy this property, saying it is a very good opportunity. And of course when you are young you can be easily persuaded and so I did purchase it. I did not know much of the law back then. Everyone acknowledges that I bought it. But I honestly do not want to pursue it, so I sold it to my cousin, and she is paying me little every month for it. Didn't care if she can have it in her name. She said, she will deal with it later. 

 

 

Edited by Maldita23
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Bama
2 hours ago, to_dave007 said:

There IS one remaining issue..  and that is a 2 year waiting period, from the date of public notice (in the news paper) to see if there is any ancestral claim..

Bit different in our case----the chance for an outsider making a claim ended when the 6 week ad in the paper ran out. Everything stopped until this time had elapsed. When we got the title it was over. Congrats to you Dave.

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to_dave007
7 minutes ago, Bama said:

Bit different in our case----the chance for an outsider making a claim ended when the 6 week ad in the paper ran out. Everything stopped until this time had elapsed. When we got the title it was over. Congrats to you Dave.

the 2 year waiting period shows as an encumbrance on the title..  The encumbrance appears to expire in June 2020..  To be sure.. I plan to get it removed as soon as it expires.

(and thanks)

I'm sure all this really adds to the excitement of the OP in the prospect of buying land here.

Edited by to_dave007
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Headshot
24 minutes ago, to_dave007 said:

I'm sure all this really adds to the excitement of the OP in the prospect of buying land here.

I doubt it. The OP has already decided to NOT buy land (in his last post).

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Paddy
On 11/4/2019 at 10:15 PM, Paddy said:

several restrictions when foreigners are involved

@Davaoeno thank you for enumerating said restrictions when foreigners are involved

If you take off your lawyer hat, you know exactly what I mean by “indirect ownership”. With it on, you are, of course, quite correct - either the company owns it or it doesn’t. 

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JohnSurrey
1 hour ago, Paddy said:

@Davaoeno thank you for enumerating said restrictions when foreigners are involved

If you take off your lawyer hat, you know exactly what I mean by “indirect ownership”. With it on, you are, of course, quite correct - either the company owns it or it doesn’t. 

Cannot remember where I read it ... but I remember a case being reported where the Kano had tried to use a corporation to circumvent the rules and the judge simply looked straight through the arrangement and declared the husbands "indirect share" was the wife's property.... sure other's will correct me if I am wrong but it was probably because the underlying land/property wasn't something that a Foreigner would be legally allowed to own in the first place - But if the guy had simply used the corporation to own a share of a condo (that he was legally allowed to own here) he wouldn't have had a problem.

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smokey

Well gee no wonder the country was on top after ww2 and now not

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