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oztony
2 hours ago, SkyMan said:

I have found a supplier that makes decent block.

How much per block ... ? 6" or 4" , if I may ask ...:)

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It is probably more structurally sound than that house....

It's always amazed me why they don't make decent blocks (with actual correct mix ratio) then lay them CORRECTLY on a PROPER foundation, the same as they seem to be able to do in the rest of the world!

The Notre Dame renovation coming on nicely, it seems.Must have hired some OFWs.

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SkyMan
1 hour ago, oztony said:

How much per block ... ? 6" or 4" , if I may ask ...:)

I believe p13 for 4".  Haven't bought 6" yet but that's soon.

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Ozepete

It's always amazed me why they don't make decent blocks (with actual correct mix ratio) then lay them CORRECTLY on a PROPER foundation, the same as they seem to be able to do in the rest of the world!  Like Skyman, we had to make our own blocks and actually put cement in them!   

 

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Kreole
On 6/17/2019 at 10:10 PM, Daddle said:

Certainly a problem if there are no columns hidden in there. However CHB walls will be stronger if NOT staggered. Because CHB itself has zero strength all the structure comes from the reinforced concrete in the hollows. That of course assumes it is done with some care. When not staggered each hollow lines up with the hollow below. These are much easier to fill and form remarkably good columns. Solid and continuous. A big plus if there is also plenty of horizontal reinforcement.

Same goes for the mortar between the blocks. Useless. Might as well just stack them dry. Again the CHB material has no inherent strength in any direction so what is the use of attempting to bond them together. Best if the wall is designed as if the CHB is simply a cheap and convenient form for well compacted reinforced concrete inside. Like the new foam block construction.

That house pictured above is going to suddenly pancake in an earthquake. But hey, there is no earthquake right now today, so all is good!

Considering the questionable quality of blocks and the time and skill it takes to lay the properly and then to have to fill the cores with rebar and concrete, it seems pretty clear that the only way I would build here is solid concrete walls. 

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SkyMan
3 hours ago, Kreole said:

Considering the questionable quality of blocks and the time and skill it takes to lay the properly and then to have to fill the cores with rebar and concrete, it seems pretty clear that the only way I would build here is solid concrete walls. 

Been doing a lot of that for the last couple years.  Almost done with that for the wall though, the rest will be CHB.  Then it will be back to poured walls for the basement on the house.

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3 hours ago, Kreole said:

Considering the questionable quality of blocks and the time and skill it takes to lay the properly and then to have to fill the cores with rebar and concrete, it seems pretty clear that the only way I would build here is solid concrete walls. 

You can try. But you will need to completely change the way things are done. To properly fill a tall wall form will require a large amount concrete poured in a short amount of time. One might accomplish this in Manila or Cebu. But quite unlikely anywhere else. You need transit mix trucks, a pumper, vibrators, and a large crew that knows what they are doing. Also the forms are expensive and complex.

Actually only a few of the walls need to be proper concrete. These are the 'shear walls' that keep a structure standing vertical in an earthquake or typhoon. Standing long enough for the occupants to escape. A CHB wall has no useful strength in shear. They instantly revert to sand. Same for the columns. The entire structure racks over: See Bohol, Mindoro, etc. With a proper design incorporating a few strategic shear walls the CHB filled walls can well provide their proper decorative roll, for that is all they are. Think gypsum board, Sheetrock, on a wood stud frame...structurally useless yet decorative.

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shadow
53 minutes ago, Daddle said:

You can try. But you will need to completely change the way things are done. To properly fill a tall wall form will require a large amount concrete poured in a short amount of time. One might accomplish this in Manila or Cebu. But quite unlikely anywhere else. You need transit mix trucks, a pumper, vibrators, and a large crew that knows what they are doing. Also the forms are expensive and complex.

Actually only a few of the walls need to be proper concrete. These are the 'shear walls' that keep a structure standing vertical in an earthquake or typhoon. Standing long enough for the occupants to escape. A CHB wall has no useful strength in shear. They instantly revert to sand. Same for the columns. The entire structure racks over: See Bohol, Mindoro, etc. With a proper design incorporating a few strategic shear walls the CHB filled walls can well provide their proper decorative roll, for that is all they are. Think gypsum board, Sheetrock, on a wood stud frame...structurally useless yet decorative.

There is no problem getting it done that way in Dumaguete area, if one has the money. If the equipment is here in this small city of 130,000+, I'm sure it is elsewhere too.

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SkyMan
2 hours ago, Daddle said:

You can try. But you will need to completely change the way things are done. To properly fill a tall wall form will require a large amount concrete poured in a short amount of time. One might accomplish this in Manila or Cebu. But quite unlikely anywhere else. You need transit mix trucks, a pumper, vibrators, and a large crew that knows what they are doing. Also the forms are expensive and complex.

You don't need to pour all the walls at the same time.  Just between the columns.

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oztony

Well I am betting that (in the pic) they a 4" blocks , only good for partition wall , the core fill would be less than 2"s wide , there simply is no structural integrity , I doubt they have steel in every block and with a bit of 12mm steel you got 3 quarters of an inch of core fill around it ..perlease.. there are no corner posts/columns to tie into also , inadequate lintels , no real beams , what the heck is the roof going to tie down to ? no staggered bond , that whole structure is knock down job ... would anyone here put their family in that building .....me ..not on your life , it is a total disgrace all round ..a clueless operation in progress..

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trthebees

I've tried to translate the article, but google translate won't pick up on the page. And trying to do it word by word on one of the English-Tagalog translators returns too many unrecognised words. In any case, with my very limited knowledge of the structure of Tagalog I'd probably not pick up the right inflexion...should, would, maybe, positives, negatives, etc.

From the picture it's hard to imagine any positives being written, but it would have made an interesting read.  

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5 hours ago, SkyMan said:

You don't need to pour all the walls at the same time.  Just between the columns.

Poured RC columns and walls would be redundant. No need for columns with RC walls. For it all to tie together properly it really should be poured in large sections. Not going to be done by a crew mixing on the ground and lugging buckets full of soupy mix.

A good house can be built with RC columns and beams. It must be designed assuming the columns and beams are the only structure as the CHB fill is only decorative...and keeps the vermin out. The connections between columns and beams is of critical importance. Which is rarely done properly.

Lightweight steel frames are the better way to go. With proper design they make strong lightweight structures able resist earthquake and wind loads. Much easier to get right. No catastrophes hidden behind layers of mud. You don't see them much because the material cost of steel vs. cheap labor. Plus the lack of experience.

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fred42
1 hour ago, oztony said:

Well I am betting that (in the pic) they a 4" blocks , only good for partition wall , the core fill would be less than 2"s wide , there simply is no structural integrity , I doubt they have steel in every block and with a bit of 12mm steel you got 3 quarters of an inch of core fill around it ..perlease.. there are no corner posts/columns to tie into also , inadequate lintels , no real beams , what the heck is the roof going to tie down to ? no staggered bond , that whole structure is knock down job ... would anyone here put their family in that building .....me ..not on your life , it is a total disgrace all round ..a clueless operation in progress..

 

 

What about my Tanduay bottle wall?

Is that a knock down job or should I give it ten years or so...See how it goes??

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oztony
6 hours ago, fred42 said:

 

 

What about my Tanduay bottle wall?

Is that a knock down job or should I give it ten years or so...See how it goes??

It is probably more structurally sound than that house....

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Kreole

Collapsing block walls kill thousands of people every year across the world.  A stick of rebar and a dob of cement down a small core is not going to save you.  If you are going to pour concrete on a small island, then of course you will need to be well prepared ahead, with all of your materials and a big crew under excellent supervision, working in shifts.  It is not rocket science.  It may cost a good percentage more, but at least you will be able to sleep at night.

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SkyMan
14 hours ago, Daddle said:

Poured RC columns and walls would be redundant. No need for columns with RC walls.

Correct but it does provide a method for pouring basement walls without having to form the entire wall structure for a single pour.  By building columns, then installing a rebar grid between, forming and filling, the forming can be fairly cheap and many times reused, then sold for scrap.  Even though there is added cost and effort to build the columns, The savings in not needing to form up the whole wall makes up for that and can be done with a small crew.  I have lots of time and not lots of money so if we go too fast, the money runs out.

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