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oztony

Just when you think you have seen it all ...

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BossHog
Posted (edited)

The Notre Dame renovation coming on nicely, it seems.Must have hired some OFWs.

Edited by BossHog
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fred42
Posted (edited)

I`m not sure it`s a big issue with steel reinforced CHB`s if they are not equally staggered and tied into columns and beams..
The big issue I have with the building in that pic is there are no columns or beams!
Anyway,once they are rendered,who would ever know?

Edited by fred42

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Semper paratus

.The house next to us built a wall just as bad adding to an existing smaller wall and buried some nice fencing it while they were at it. No staggering of the blocks looked just horrible like a 5 year old did it. We have been in this house 7 years and that was during our first year here. These people that built this really tall wall only came here for 2 months out of the year from Norway. The guy was a real crouch. Never talked to him. But we think he was mad at our landlady because she was building another house behind us that abutted his property also and he didn't like her building there. We only saw him and his wife 2  years for 2 months and they haven't been back since. He had a heart attack (not surprising as grumpy as he was) and she has cancer. The house is for sale but at a price so high that someone does not want it sold. Just a caretaker couple living there now. Oh anyhow our landlady back then quickly had our side of the ugly mess nicely cemented and then covered with something else that is super smooth. I'll paint it probably this year as it looks like we'll be here a while. But she says they will be raising the rent 6% every year now. That is not going to set well with me. We maintain and fix this house like it is our own and she knows it.  She'll end up with this house sitting empty someday and that increase will be eten up quickly when it is empty. As far as I can tell she owns and rents 14 other houses.  Greed is setting in and I know who is behind it. Can't say more as that would give it away. 

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Paddy
47 minutes ago, fred42 said:

there are no columns or beams!

I see the beams, but I don’t see the columns - and we should be able to see a couple at least. The beams look undersized as does the steel bar being used (check out the 2 pieces over the door). 

The door and window frames do not seem to be well secured and there are no lintels - even wooden ones - except over the door and that has one end that is supported in a very suspect manner.

I’d also be surprised if any of that “construction” is plumb, square or true. 

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fred42
29 minutes ago, Paddy said:

I see the beams, but I don’t see the columns -


You see beams?? 
That 4" strip along the middle looks like the edge of the concrete floor slab.. The strip above it looks like... F*** knows what it is or looks like but it aint a beam!!lol

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Daddle

Certainly a problem if there are no columns hidden in there. However CHB walls will be stronger if NOT staggered. Because CHB itself has zero strength all the structure comes from the reinforced concrete in the hollows. That of course assumes it is done with some care. When not staggered each hollow lines up with the hollow below. These are much easier to fill and form remarkably good columns. Solid and continuous. A big plus if there is also plenty of horizontal reinforcement.

Same goes for the mortar between the blocks. Useless. Might as well just stack them dry. Again the CHB material has no inherent strength in any direction so what is the use of attempting to bond them together. Best if the wall is designed as if the CHB is simply a cheap and convenient form for well compacted reinforced concrete inside. Like the new foam block construction.

That house pictured above is going to suddenly pancake in an earthquake. But hey, there is no earthquake right now today, so all is good!

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SkyMan
1 hour ago, fred42 said:

I`m not sure it`s a big issue with steel reinforced CHB`s if they are not equally staggered and tied into columns and beams..
The big issue I have with the building in that pic is there are no columns or beams!
Anyway,once they are rendered,who would ever know?

You followed my exact train of thought.  

Not only are the blocks direct stacked but butted end to end so little to no mortar in between.  I've seen mall walls stacked like this but they do put a small gap between them, however, in the case of the malls the block sections are short with columns at each end.

28 minutes ago, Paddy said:

I see the beams

There's one little beam like thing near the roof but I wonder if that was more of an afterthought correction to make the roof line up right.  Or perhaps it provides attachments for a drop ceiling inside?  Looks about 3 inches so not much of a beam and it's 13 courses of block up.  Although those mortar lines look a bit thin, that's close to 3 meters.  I'm a little surprised the first floor didn't collapse when they poured the second floor slab and looking at the work over the door I wonder if their wasn't some problem there.  There's some kind of steel seems to retrofitted in there.  And is that bar across the door for security or is it trying to hold the frame and wall together?  Of course, it's all good if you brace the second floor to the perimeter wall.  :o

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SkyMan
4 minutes ago, Daddle said:

Certainly a problem if there are no columns hidden in there. However CHB walls will be stronger if NOT staggered. Because CHB itself has zero strength all the structure comes from the reinforced concrete in the hollows. That of course assumes it is done with some care. When not staggered each hollow lines up with the hollow below. These are much easier to fill and form remarkably good columns. Solid and continuous. A big plus if there is also plenty of horizontal reinforcement.

Good hollow block certainly does have strength, especially CMUs which are used to build walls not only without columns but without filling the voids.  There are no CMUs I have seen here so filling the voids is a good idea.  It is also quite easy to fill the voids with staggered block.  If the block are properly spaced the voids line up but even if not you simply put down a course and fill, put down a course and fill.....  Filling the voids does not require you wait for the entire wall to be laid.

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SkyMan
50 minutes ago, Paddy said:

s does the steel bar being used (check out the 2 pieces over the door). 

I suspect those 2 rebars are there to attach some kind of awning.  I would guess they are 10mm.  10mm would be a little small for the walls I think but maybe that's what they used there too.  As Fred said, though, whoever is paying for it probably isn't paying close attention or doesn't know what to look for so after it's rendered they will be happy.

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Daddle
1 hour ago, SkyMan said:

Good hollow block certainly does have strength, especially CMUs which are used to build walls not only without columns but without filling the voids.  There are no CMUs I have seen here so filling the voids is a good idea.  It is also quite easy to fill the voids with staggered block.  If the block are properly spaced the voids line up but even if not you simply put down a course and fill, put down a course and fill.....  Filling the voids does not require you wait for the entire wall to be laid.

CHB must be different in Liloan than here in Quezon. None of the CHB here is "good hollow block". If you lift it without care it crumbles into pieces. Tapping it into place with the trowel handle gives you only a pile of dusty gravel. I cannot imagine the pictured house is built with anything better. It has no inherent strength. Just enough cement to give that gray color. The suppliers here will, on special order, make stronger block but it is only slightly better. Certainly not anything resembling a legitimate block.  Not something one could drop on the ground without crumbling to dust.

The concrete of an ASTM C90 hollow block is to have a compressive strength of 1900 psi. My vendor here claims his blocks are 30 psi. The special order blocks are 90 psi. 90 is a long long way from 1900. I have CHB in California which I can throw to the ground from overhead and will never even chip a corner. This type of CHB must be what you are thinking of.  Even a wall made of this block without filling and rebar is also unsafe in an earthquake.

Also the CHB here in Quezon has three internal cavities. If staggered by halves they do not line up. Filling them makes the wall 'hard' but not stiff. Some success can be had by staggering by about a third. But why bother?

Stacked without staggering gives three continuous columns from bottom to top. Each is about 90mm square. With a 10mm rebar and when reasonably well filled the wall will be very stiff and strong. Ultimately what we seek is a wall that will not instantly turn to rubble in an earthquake killing all the nearby innocent children as the typical staggered poorly filled filipino walls are well documented to do.

I build my walls without stagger. Stronger, simpler, quicker and it greatly annoys the local experts who walk by all day long. Plus they helpfully advise me that my 10mm rebar is far too big. Hilarious, except for all the dead people after earthquakes.

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fred42

Just about after you thought you have seen everything..Check youtube first.
 

 

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Daddle
23 minutes ago, fred42 said:

Just about after you thought you have seen everything..Check youtube first.

Some people should simply not be allowed to have tools and machines with moving parts. Or Karaoke machines for that matter.

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oztony

Yeah big problem (in the original pic) no staggered bond on the blockwork , one little tremor and the whole thing will become garden landscape, the builders are truly clueless ...

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SkyMan
10 hours ago, Daddle said:

CHB must be different in Liloan than here in Quezon. None of the CHB here is "good hollow block". If you lift it without care it crumbles into pieces. Tapping it into place with the trowel handle gives you only a pile of dusty gravel. I cannot imagine the pictured house is built with anything better. It has no inherent strength. Just enough cement to give that gray color. The suppliers here will, on special order, make stronger block but it is only slightly better. Certainly not anything resembling a legitimate block.  Not something one could drop on the ground without crumbling to dust.

There's plenty of that here too.  Grab the corner of the block and you get a handful of sand.  Moistly that is the hand made/packed stuff I won't buy.  We made some of our own decent quality with my machine.  There's one block that isn't even a whole block that I've been kicking around as a door stop on my bodega for 4 or 5 years.  I have found a supplier that makes decent block.

10 hours ago, Daddle said:

I have CHB in California which I can throw to the ground from overhead and will never even chip a corner. This type of CHB must be what you are thinking of.

Those are CMUs, Concrete Masonry Units sometimes called Cinder blocks.  Machine made/compressed and kiln dried.  Cost about p70 at Lowes so no, you don't see any here.

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