Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Jim_in_Jax

Can US Consulate Process Paperwork for W7 and ITIN Applications

Recommended Posts

Jim_in_Jax
2 minutes ago, SkyMan said:

Right, the bottom page or so of that link is more for your situation.  

So, I think first what you need is a PSA (formerly NSO) certified copy of the BC.  Does the order of adoption include the name change and has that been filed with the PSA?  If so, you can order the BC through the PSA office in your Municipal Hall for a few hundred pesos and if it's correct, then get it DFA certified at Pacific Mall.

We already forwarded the court documents to PSA and we're waiting for them to send us the new birth certificate with the name change ordered by the court (fortunately we have some inside help as the wife has a friend who works there).  Am I correct in assuming you're talking about the Pacific Mall in Mandaue at the corner of UN Ave and Rizal St.?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jawny
20 minutes ago, Jim_in_Jax said:

Okay to clear things up, here is the situation.  My wife and I are US citizens.  We live here in the Philippines.  The child is not hers but is a relative, the daughter of my wife's nephew.  My wife has an SSN since she is a US citizen.  The link provided here discusses inter-country Hague Convention adoptions.  This is not our case, we did the entire adoption process here.  We do however need to meet a requirement of the child living with us for 2 years before we could file an immigration petition on her behalf.  We do hope that someday she'll be granted an immigrant visa and yes, after we moved back to the US we'd get her an SSN.  This could be a number of years from now though and I thought I could get an ITIN number for her in the meantime not only for taxes, but also to claim as a dependent when I begin collecting Social Security later this year.

With the moves the current administration is making concerning immigration (one of them being the potential closure of the USCIS office at the embassy in Manila), we're not counting on her ever being able to get an immigrant visa so this could turn out to be our permanent residence.

I can’t be certain about all of this, but from what you said, your situation is similar to what I experienced.

My wife does not have USA citizenship nor does the child we adopted.  The child was hers, but we adopted the child as a couple, using the domestic courts. 

The adoption took a long while, including the long delay awaiting the SOLGEN to stop this appeal.  Years.  Then, once finalized, it took another year or more before the amended BC was available.

Once the new BC was in hand, we began the W7 process.   This took two attempts until we used the RAO.  Then the ITIN was provided  quickly. 

We have no intention of moving to the USA.  However, if we did, there’s no issue with informing the IRS when an SSAN is received.  https://www.irs.gov/individuals/additional-itin-information

I’m not sure about your reference to social security benefits.  The non resident child (adopted or not) does not meet eligibility to receive benefits. 

There is an age limit for USA immigration for a child. If the process is t completed on time, the child has to immigrate on their own merits, not as your child.

The ITIN does allow for a significant benefit on taxes as a dependent. Worth the trouble to get the ITIN in my opinion.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Salty Dog
17 minutes ago, Jawny said:

I’m not sure about your reference to social security benefits.  The non resident child (adopted or not) does not meet eligibility to receive benefits. 

Non US resident children born a US citizen (father or mother was a US citizen), qualify for SS benefits. There are many members on here that this applies to. In fact I've met more than a few who have children just so their wife (Philippines Citizen) who doesn't normally qualify for SS benefits will  share the child's benefit that continues and often increases after the death of the husband. I think she also gets some benefits herself as a guardian of a child who receives SS benefits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SkyMan
15 minutes ago, Jim_in_Jax said:

Am I correct in assuming you're talking about the Pacific Mall in Mandaue at the corner of UN Ave and Rizal St.?

Yes, the DFA office is somewhere on an upper floor there.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but you may not be able to get her an IITIN.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw7.pdf

On page 3, after the list of acceptable documents....

Quote

Proof of U.S. residency for applicants who are dependents. For tax years beginning after 2017, applicants claimed as dependents must also prove U.S. residency unless the applicant is a dependent of U.S. military personnel stationed overseas. A passport that doesn’t have a date of entry won’t be accepted as a stand-alone identification document for dependents. In these cases, applicants will be required to submit at least one of the following original documents in addition to the passport to prove U.S. residency.

• If under 6 years of age: A U.S. medical record that lists the applicant’s name and U.S. address.

• If at least 6 years of age but under 18 years of age: A U.S. school record that lists the applicant’s name and U.S. address.

• If 18 years of age or older: U.S. school record, rental statement from a U.S. property, utility bill for a U.S. property, or bank statement that lists the applicant’s name and U.S. address.

Note. Applicants claimed as dependents on prior-year returns must also prove U.S. residency if the passport doesn’t have a date of entry unless the applicant is from Canada or Mexico or is a dependent of U.S. military personnel stationed overseas. In these cases, applicants will be required to submit at least one of the original documents from the list earlier in addition to the passport to prove U.S. residency.

If you check box d for a dependent of a U.S. citizen or resident alien, then you may submit an original valid passport (or a certified copy from the issuing agency) without any other documents to prove your “foreign status” or “identity” only if the passport has a U.S. date of entry. Otherwise, you must submit one of the additional documents listed earlier with your passport to prove residency. If you don’t have one of the additional documents listed above to submit with your passport, you can’t use your passport as a stand-alone supporting document and must submit at least two types of documents listed in the “Supporting Documentation” table that prove residency, identity, and foreign status, and that meet the photograph requirement explained above.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daddle

My US based tax preparer recently did all that work. Just some emailed signatures back and forth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SkyMan
4 minutes ago, Daddle said:

My US based tax preparer recently did all that work. Just some emailed signatures back and forth.

For a spouse?  And an emailed scan of her pp?  That is illegal but whatever works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jawny
18 minutes ago, Salty Dog said:

Non US resident children born a US citizen (father or mother was a US citizen), qualify for SS benefits. There are many members on here that this applies to. In fact I've met more than a few who have children just so their wife (Philippines Citizen) who doesn't normally qualify for SS benefits will  share the child's benefit that continues and often increases after the death of the husband. I think she also gets some benefits herself as a guardian of a child who receives SS benefits.

No disagreement from me with regard to children born here as part of relationship.  However, if the child is not a USA citizen, I’m pretty sure their eligibility is not allowed.  As well, a Filipino who serves as the payee representative is not provided any benefit for themself. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SkyMan
44 minutes ago, SkyMan said:

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but you may not be able to get her an IITIN.

Reading the rules for dependents on the 1040 instructions it says for adopted children apply for an ATIN but if the child isn't a US citizen (or some other qualifiers) then they have to get an ITIN and the ITIN rules I quoted above say that's no longer an option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jawny
1 minute ago, SkyMan said:

Reading the rules for dependents on the 1040 instructions it says for adopted children apply for an ATIN but if the child isn't a US citizen (or some other qualifiers) then they have to get an ITIN and the ITIN rules I quoted above say that's no longer an option.

It is beneficial to contact the RAO for guidance.  Those same requirements were in place several years back when I applied for an ITIN for my adopted child.  In two successive efforts, the application was rejected, because of the blank for "date of entry". 

With the assistance of the RAO, the W7 was processed, with a footnote regarding date of entry  

The IRS rules often are written from the perspective of USA resident.  So it’s not surprising the IRS wants to discourage USA residents from having convenient adoptions for the tax benefit. However, non resident USA citizens may be exempted.  That’s why the RAO is up to date in these requirements. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SkyMan
2 minutes ago, Jawny said:

because of the blank for "date of entry". 

With the assistance of the RAO, the W7 was processed, with a footnote regarding date of entry  

What was the footnote?  It's worth a try I guess.  There's no application fee for the ITIN but the child will need a passport so there is the cost for that.  (Also waiting on the corrected PSA BC but also obtained at the DFA.)

4 minutes ago, Jawny said:

Those same requirements were in place several years back when I applied for an ITIN for my adopted child.  In two successive efforts, the application was rejected, because of the blank for "date of entry". 

 

59 minutes ago, SkyMan said:

Proof of U.S. residency for applicants who are dependents. For tax years beginning after 2017, applicants claimed as dependents must also prove U.S. residency unless the applicant is a dependent of U.S. military personnel stationed overseas.

Sounds new to me.  I don't know the rules were before 2018.  You may find your child is no longer eligible even if they have an ITIN.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jawny

The footnote was to state the basic fact that the ITIN was being requested for a dependent of a USA citizen living overseas. Included were school records and other local documents showing residency of the child. 

One more important detail. The block for "other" was checked and the words MILITARY OVERSEAS typed in. 

I suspect it was simply a way to avoid the automatic rejection which happened twice to my first two attempts.......the date of entry was blank, so rejected. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SkyMan
14 minutes ago, Jawny said:

The block for "other" was checked and the words MILITARY OVERSEAS typed in. 

That would be what got it approved then.  Military stationed overseas are exempt from this rule.  And if the IRS finds out about this you could be in a heap of trouble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jawny
2 minutes ago, SkyMan said:

That would be what got it approved then.  Military stationed overseas are exempt from this rule.  And if the IRS finds out about this you could be in a heap of trouble.

Thanks for the concern. The instructions were followed by the authorized tax representative as provided by the IRS. Nothing improper was done. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SkyMan
15 minutes ago, Jawny said:

Thanks for the concern. The instructions were followed by the authorized tax representative as provided by the IRS. Nothing improper was done. 

I do not think Ron is a qualified IRS tax representative but even if she was, You signed the W-7 indicating you were active duty military assigned overseas.  There are lots of ways one can reduce tax liability if you don't care about the consequences.  Bad enough for yourself but then to advise others to take that risk themselves?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jawny
Posted (edited)

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/acceptance-agents-philippines

The W7 form will include the applicants name as well as the Accepting Agent. As well, the Accepting Agent submits a supplement which indicates what documents were reviewed which is called a "Certificate of Accuracy".  This is signed by the Acceptance Agent, separately from the client.  

It is not my custom to provide advice others to conduct themselves in an illegal manner.  

Just to be clear......here is the quote from the IRS as guidance to the Acceptance Agent, the one who assisted myself...."We have established the following procedures to hopefully eliminate the rejection of applications for adopted children of U.S. citizens living abroad.  Write 'Military Overseas' to the right of Reason for Applying 'h' .  This will prevent  future rejects."

This guidance was from the IRS ITIN Program Office.  

Edited by Jawny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use, Privacy Policy and Guidelines. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue..