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Jim_in_Jax

Can US Consulate Process Paperwork for W7 and ITIN Applications

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Jim_in_Jax

Has anyone been able to process the paperwork required for the W7 to get an ITIN number for a spouse or adopted child at the consulate?

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SkyMan
Posted (edited)

No, and the Embassy can't either.  You can mail it in yourself though.  Easiest way is to mail in the W-7 with a return and your wife's passport (and the child's) to the IRS ITIN processing Center.  They'll mail back the pp in less than a month, ITIN will come separately.

On the return, leave the SS #s blank and be sure to include a note that you filed from overseas so you get the 2 month extension since you're late.

Edited by SkyMan
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Jim_in_Jax

Thanks for the reply.  This case is for an adopted child.  So, I know the consulate and embassy can't process the W7 but, the supporting documents one being the NSO issued birth certificate, must be certified by consulate services.  My question was if this consulate in Cebu can do the certification or are we going to have to make a trip to Manila?  Below is the text from the embassy site concerning W7 document preparation:

 

The Embassy Consular officers can authenticate originally signed birth certificates and marriage contracts issued by the Philippine National Statistics Office (NSO) in Quezon City, Philippines, after certification from Department of Foreign Affairs official (DFA) in support of applications for US taxpayer ID numbers, ITIN (W-7) application. Other documents required by the ITIN (W-7) may be certified by the issuing agency or official custodian of the original record.

As for filing for an extension, we've already filed 2018 taxes and received a return.  Even though the adoption was final in 2018, the Solicitor General filed a petition to reverse the decision and delayed the finalization for an additional 7 months.  We anticipated if the case had to be reheard by a different judge that it could go on for another 2 years.  We still do not have an NSO birth certifcate for the child with the name change and have no idea how long that will take to get.  HA!  Everything is more fun in the Philippines.  Right?

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Jawny

The good news is that the IRS allows for amended tax returns to be filed later.

i had a similar situation where the SOLGEN appealed the regional court adoption decision.  Long story, short version.  They withdrew the appeal a couple of years later and the adoption became finalized. 

I attempted twice to get theW7 processed myself.  It was rejected both times.  I finally used the services of the RAO staff to complete the processing.  They have an authorized agent to process the W7.  It will require a personal visit to their offices.  Contact the Jim Boyd foundation.  Sorry, I don’t have the contact information presently. 

I had to have the birth certificate processed by the NSA before the process could be completed.  You’ll need the part of the court record that shows the final  decision. 

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SkyMan
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Jim_in_Jax said:

Even though the adoption was final in 2018, the Solicitor General filed a petition to reverse the decision and delayed the finalization for an additional 7 months. 

So, is it final (again) or not?  If so, I wouldn't bother with the ITIN but would work on getting them US citz/passport/SS#.  With the SS# you can amend previous years returns as Jawny suggested.  Perhaps the process for that is the same for an adopted child as it is for the CRBA which can be done at consulate.  I don't know if they would require a PSA BC for that or if the adoption order is enough.  You can probably then amend your taxes back to whichever year the child began living with you when you began the adoption process.

I would just make sure to get the new citz/SS/passport in the new name to avoid explanations down the road.

Edited by SkyMan
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Jim_in_Jax
8 minutes ago, Jawny said:

Contact the Jim Boyd foundation.  Sorry, I don’t have the contact information presently. 

 

 

Jim Boyd foundation?  Is this the Cebu RAO you're talking about?  That's where I got the W7 form from.

 

9 minutes ago, Jawny said:

I had to have the birth certificate processed by the NSA before the process could be completed.  You’ll need the part of the court record that shows the final  decision. 

1

Is the NSA process what I mentioned in the quote from my previous message "after certification from Department of Foreign Affairs official (DFA)"?  NSA, DFA same people?  You didn't have to get anything certified by the US consulate?

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Jawny

https://1925mcarthur.wixsite.com/raoangeles

 

google search got me this.

The NSA is the centralized placed where BC, MC and such are all maintained and where official copies are obtained of same.

if you use an authorized agent, no verifications by DFA etc needed.  

As an example, I recently renewed an ITIN for my wife.  I got a certified copy of her passport from the DFA in Cebu. Preferred using that in lieu of sending the passport.  Otherwise, a passport alone would have worked.  I didn’t feel the need to make the trip to Angeles to use the RAO.

 

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SkyMan
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Jim_in_Jax said:

Is the NSA process what I mentioned in the quote from my previous message "after certification from Department of Foreign Affairs official (DFA)"?  NSA, DFA same people?  You didn't have to get anything certified by the US consulate?

NSO?  Which is now the PSA?  That's where you get the BC for your child in the new name.  DFA is not the same people.

Edited by SkyMan

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Salty Dog
On 9/9/2015 at 11:34 PM, Jawny said:

I am sure you do NOT need the ITIN to file the amendment. You just need to indicate on the 1040x that an ITIN has been applied for, include the W7 form. See the attached.

In fact, you can't get the ITIN unless there is a tax requirement. In effect, you have to file the amended tax return in order to obtain the ITIN.

This makes sense. If you were filing an amendment because you owed taxes, the longer you wait, the greater the interest and penalty for the overdue taxes, Waiting on the ITIN would increase the penalties.

Incidentally, having a spouse as a dependent is not some sort of requirement. Your spouse can file independently (just think of Brad Pitt and Angelica Jolie......filing joint?!). It is typically to the benefit of the filer to use the joint tax return since the filing is done with a different tax rate. However, the income from the spouse needs to be included. Your accountant is saving you money if the spouse has no income to increase the tax liability but does serve to increase number of dependents.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1915.pdf

 

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SkyMan
25 minutes ago, Salty Dog said:

 

On 9/9/2015 at 11:34 PM, Jawny said:

I am sure you do NOT need the ITIN to file the amendment. You just need to indicate on the 1040x that an ITIN has been applied for, include the W7 form. See the attached.

In fact, you can't get the ITIN unless there is a tax requirement. In effect, you have to file the amended tax return in order to obtain the ITIN.

This makes sense. If you were filing an amendment because you owed taxes, the longer you wait, the greater the interest and penalty for the overdue taxes, Waiting on the ITIN would increase the penalties.

Incidentally, having a spouse as a dependent is not some sort of requirement. Your spouse can file independently (just think of Brad Pitt and Angelica Jolie......filing joint?!). It is typically to the benefit of the filer to use the joint tax return since the filing is done with a different tax rate. However, the income from the spouse needs to be included. Your accountant is saving you money if the spouse has no income to increase the tax liability but does serve to increase number of dependents.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1915.pdf

 

I think in the OPs case of an adopted child, getting an ITIN would be more of a bother than anything helpful since the child will be getting a SS# when that process goes through.  Then you'd have the IRS looking at the filings where some have an ITIN and some a SSAN.  The ITIN is more useful for spouses who may be some years before they get a SSAN, if ever.

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Jawny
2 hours ago, Jim_in_Jax said:

Has anyone been able to process the paperwork required for the W7 to get an ITIN number for a spouse or adopted child at the consulate?

I hadn’t paid attention, but noticed you’re doing the spouse as well.  That is easier since only a passport is needed.

For the child, evidence of adoption is needed and once done, ITIN in hand, the child is a dependent with associated tax benefits.  

Also, there is a one time tax benefit for you for the costs associated with the adoption.  I didn’t use it, too long to explain why.  However, it can be helpful at tax time and an amended tax return can be used if necessary. 

Keep in mind, many of the instructions and such are written from the point of view that the adoptive parents are USA residents.  So, as you read about the the processes, the instructions will assume you are living in the USA. For example, the W7 includes a block to show WHEN the adopted child first entered the USA. This creates a catch 22 situation, but the gal at the RAO can process the W7 so long as the child is seen.

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Jawny
3 minutes ago, SkyMan said:

I think in the OPs case of an adopted child, getting an ITIN would be more of a bother than anything helpful since the child will be getting a SS# when that process goes through.  Then you'd have the IRS looking at the filings where some have an ITIN and some a SSAN.  The ITIN is more useful for spouses who may be some years before they get a SSAN, if ever.

I may have assumed incorrectly, but if the child is a Filipino, then a SSAN is not going to be provided until the child enters the USA. I may have that wrong, but I have a Filipino adopted child, and an SSAN is not possible until and unless an entry to the USA occurs. That is, immigrates. 

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SkyMan
Posted (edited)

This may be a good place to start....

https://ph.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/child-family-matters/adoption/?_ga=2.188440616.1043803373.1513666048-1334164740.1502093224

11 minutes ago, Jawny said:

I may have assumed incorrectly, but if the child is a Filipino, then a SSAN is not going to be provided until the child enters the USA. I may have that wrong, but I have a Filipino adopted child, and an SSAN is not possible until and unless an entry to the USA occurs. That is, immigrates. 

Would it matter if the adopted child is the natural child of his wife?  Don't know, just asking.

@Lordblacknail

Edited by SkyMan

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Jim_in_Jax
27 minutes ago, SkyMan said:

This may be a good place to start....

https://ph.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/child-family-matters/adoption/?_ga=2.188440616.1043803373.1513666048-1334164740.1502093224

Would it matter if the adopted child is the natural child of his wife?  Don't know, just asking.

@Lordblacknail

Okay to clear things up, here is the situation.  My wife and I are US citizens.  We live here in the Philippines.  The child is not hers but is a relative, the daughter of my wife's nephew.  My wife has an SSN since she is a US citizen.  The link provided here discusses inter-country Hague Convention adoptions.  This is not our case, we did the entire adoption process here.  We do however need to meet a requirement of the child living with us for 2 years before we could file an immigration petition on her behalf.  We do hope that someday she'll be granted an immigrant visa and yes, after we moved back to the US we'd get her an SSN.  This could be a number of years from now though and I thought I could get an ITIN number for her in the meantime not only for taxes, but also to claim as a dependent when I begin collecting Social Security later this year.

With the moves the current administration is making concerning immigration (one of them being the potential closure of the USCIS office at the embassy in Manila), we're not counting on her ever being able to get an immigrant visa so this could turn out to be our permanent residence.

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SkyMan
15 minutes ago, Jim_in_Jax said:

Okay to clear things up, here is the situation.  My wife and I are US citizens.  We live here in the Philippines.  The child is not hers but is a relative, the daughter of my wife's nephew.  My wife has an SSN since she is a US citizen.  The link provided here discusses inter-country Hague Convention adoptions.  This is not our case, we did the entire adoption process here.  We do however need to meet a requirement of the child living with us for 2 years before we could file an immigration petition on her behalf.  We do hope that someday she'll be granted an immigrant visa and yes, after we moved back to the US we'd get her an SSN.  This could be a number of years from now though and I thought I could get an ITIN number for her in the meantime not only for taxes, but also to claim as a dependent when I begin collecting Social Security later this year.

Right, the bottom page or so of that link is more for your situation.  

So, I think first what you need is a PSA (formerly NSO) certified copy of the BC.  Does the order of adoption include the name change and has that been filed with the PSA?  If so, you can order the BC through the PSA office in your Municipal Hall for a few hundred pesos and if it's correct, then get it DFA certified at Pacific Mall.

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