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jojogumabew

help constructing cheap elevated open air pavilion?

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jojogumabew
Posted (edited)

We built a house near the beach in Nasugbu, Batangas with some help (much appreciated) from this forum. We really love it, go as often as we can, and plan to retire there. As part of our  retirement planning we've been looking off and on for something to do. We found a  1000+ sqm place near the beach a few minutes away and decided to sign a long term lease. Our plan is to put up a small restaurant. This would be a new experience for us though my wife and I have owned/own small businesses and I like to cook.  The area has growing local tourism and it's near the well to do beach communities in the area though I anticipate it may lose money in the first couple of years or barely breakeven. However, the lease rate is low and the place has a nice feel with mature trees and is 50m from the beach and 50m from the highway and along the main road going to the many small resorts in the area. There are a few small structures which I can convert into a kitchen, existing water (well), electricity, road access, bathrooms, and a 25 sqm pond which dries up during summer. Since the area is developmental I wanted to spend as little as possible on a structure.

  • I'm thinking an elevated pavilion (0.7m above ground), single storey, open on all sides with flat 5 degree roof about 80 sqm-100 sqm. The pavilion will be under big mango trees so it will be shady even during the day. It's quite pleasant during even during summer.
  • The area has flooded about 30cm for 30 minutes once in the past 10 years according to the owner. 
  • Will improve bathrooms so they are nice
  • I wanted to install diy waste water treatment for the kitchen water and recycle this water into a vegetable garden. Bathrooms go into an existing septic tank. Will add water storage tanks, water filtration and diy UV treatment. My understanding is there's plenty of groundwater even in summer. The area is surrounded by hills and is near a river that flows into the sea. 
  • Wanted to invest in landscaping, and lighting maybe put geomembrane in the pond so it becomes a water feature so feel will be very nice open air, like bali. Will have ducks and geese and maybe one pig to eat the leftover food.
  • According to my friend 80 sqm is good for seating for 80 and I can expand the existing structures to have a kitchen, counter, and back of house of maybe 30 sqm to start with.

Anyway, would appreciate some advice to be able to build all this for P800k + another 200k for equipment and another 500k for working capital, losses etc. I have access to a good foreman who can do a design based on a drawing and supervise construction. I also know hardware, landscape, fill suppliers. For the water treatment I was planning to just work off a design on youtube. Primarily I'm hoping I can get some design guidance.

  • What's the cheapest way to build the pavilion? Am thinking of adding fill and building on top of it with some columns. I wanted a native feel, but maybe can be achieved by just adding nipa under GI sheet. The area gets hit by typhoons although it's partly sheltered by trees. I wanted to still be able to serve half the area in case of rain so I need a way to shield some of the area from horizontal rain.
  • What should I use for columns and roof trusses? My lease is for 13 yrs so it should last that long.
  • Any suggested design for roofing that looks nice and is still cheap to build? This architect suggested a single slope flat roof is simplest and cheapest.
  • Another issue is there doesn't seem to be good internet in the area but I wanted to have internet for security monitoring, etc.

Separately would appreciate suggestions for food. Originally I was thinking of a P500/person price point but looking at the crowd, probably will need to cut it by half (sambal eggs with sausage and coconut rice or cheese burgers with some premium items like ribs at P500 and some farm to table vegetables. I plan to add a woodfired oven to make bread but not pizza. My goal is to have the nicest relaxed feel restaurant with parking in the area. There are places to eat on the beach but they are hot and aren't very nice.

Anyway would appreciate any suggestions on design, concept, food etc. In terms of the risk, I think it's too late we're kinda committed. In terms of experience, I cook often for 20 people and have cooked for 60+ people. I believe that it's completely different from the grind of running a restaurant but it's a start.

Thanks!

 

Edited by jojogumabew
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to_dave007
Posted (edited)

Was in a large open air restaurant in Sipalay Negros last year that may fit your bill..  Columns were made of the rough cut trunks of trees set in concrete..  and most of the structure itself was bamboo, lashed together with thick plastic fishing line..  same methods as they use for a lot of the outriggers on the boats.  Roof was corrugated metal over nipa.  Best thing about it was the feel..  open, airy, very pleasant.  Unfortunately.. no photo's for you.  May be a bit high to go UNDER a mango tree.

We have big mango in the front yard..  it sheds and drops a LOT of stuff..  leaves and branches..  that will end up on your roof. 

I would urge you to travel around and seek out other foreigner owned restaurants.. and talk to the owners to pick their brains.  Can think of several good places myself, and I'm sure others here can do the same.  The one closest to your "model" was the Belgian Bistro in Santandar in Cebu.  Of course not at all convenient for you.  Owned and operated by Christian..  age 64 I think..  from Belgium..  chef for much of his life.  Good food..  I think about 50% under your 500 person price point.  Not very busy most days..  but quite busy on others.

Edited by to_dave007
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jojogumabew

Dave do you recall the name of the Sipalay restaurant? 

Might have to trim some branches or do a cut out in the roof but the mango trees but I think a 3m+ high structure would fit.

I've spoken to three restaurant owners so far. One who didn't make it, one who has moderate success and one who's doing really really well and is very systematic.

His suggestion was to put up a banquet area and have lots of parking.

 

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Rwtom

Sounds very interesting. I’ve thought about trying something similar when and if the time is right. I agree with @to_dave007that nipa and rough cut timber would provide a nice atmosphere. Sounds very doable with your budget.

 I was at a beach resort recently in cdo. And saw what not to do. The entire beach side of the property was covered by a huge covered pavilion. But it was so low on the sides it blocked the view and made it feel claustrophobic.

bbq chicken is always a good option too.

 I wish you success 

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to_dave007
1 hour ago, jojogumabew said:

Dave do you recall the name of the Sipalay restaurant? 

I'll go you one better.  The place is called Artistic Diving and Beach Resort.  You can see a 360 view image of INSIDE the restaurant at https://www.artisticdiving.com/.  Scroll down the page to find where it says "360º RUNDGANG" and select the Restaurant.  That's the place.  German owned. or Swiss German.

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jojogumabew
40 minutes ago, to_dave007 said:

360 view image of INSIDE the restaurant at https://www.artisticdiving.com/.  Scroll down the page to find where it says "360º RUNDGANG" and select the Restaurant.  That's the place.  German owned. or Swiss German.

Tx Dave! Wife likes the feel. Maybe will make it a bit less rustic.

 

1 hour ago, Rwtom said:

@to_dave007that nipa and rough cut timber would provide a nice atmosphere. Sounds very doable with your budget.

...low on the sides it blocked the view and made it feel claustrophobic.

bbq chicken is always a good option too.

Chicken is a good idea.

Would bamboo be realistic for trusses in a storm? In theory should be possible they use it for scaffolding to build skyscrapers in hk.

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Rwtom
On 4/10/2019 at 8:48 PM, jojogumabew said:

Would bamboo be realistic for trusses in a storm? In theory

Quote from http://www.ijstr.org/

International Journal of Scientific & Technology Research

“Although, the tensile strength of steel is 2.5-3.0 times higher than bamboo and the specific gravity 6-8 times that of bamboo; but by counting their tensile strength/unit weight (bamboo vs steel), the tensile strength of bamboo is 3- 4 times that of steel.strength/unit weight (bamboo vs steel), the tensile strength of bamboo is 3- 4 times that of steel.”

And I’ve read similar specs elsewhere. Securing them to each other or something else  is the challenge. Since you can’t weld and use nuts & bolts. The lashing method Dave mentioned is the traditional way to connect them. But as far as strength bamboo is remarkable.

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Headshot

It isn't the tensile strength of bamboo that comes into question on nipa houses during a typhoon. It is the nipa roof being torn off by the wind and the house being washed away by the storm surge. If you build on the coast in areas where typhoons are common, you should expect to lose everything the next time a big storm hits.

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Davaoeno
13 minutes ago, Headshot said:

It isn't the tensile strength of bamboo that comes into question on nipa houses during a typhoon. It is the nipa roof being torn off by the wind and the house being washed away by the storm surge. If you build on the coast in areas where typhoons are common, you should expect to lose everything the next time a big storm hits.

That's an interesting theory-  that the strength of the building materials is irrelevant if there is a storm .  Have you so advised all the engineering schools so that they can adjust their teachings accordingly?

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Headshot
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Davaoeno said:

That's an interesting theory-  that the strength of the building materials is irrelevant if there is a storm .  Have you so advised all the engineering schools so that they can adjust their teachings accordingly?

It is the connecting points that fail in a storm, not the materials themselves. The bamboo doesn't get shredded, but rather is ripped off as a larger unit due to the forces. The bamboo doesn't get shredded until the larger unit (the roof, for instance) comes crashing back to earth. The problem with building with bamboo is that making the connections as strong as the material, itself, isn't very easy to do. This is the Philippines. Structures are built to hold themselves up against the forces of gravity. No other forces are considered. Nothing that isn't easy to do (the most expedient) is ever done here.

In 1993, when a class 4 typhoon hit Cebu City, my wife was living in a nipa hut structure, During the storm, the entire roof was blown away, not because the materials weren't strong, but because they weren't well-connected to the house's walls. It was built to support weight, not lateral and lifting forces (just like every other bamboo structure is built here).

Edited by Headshot
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jojogumabew

Spoke to 2 architects who specialize in modern bamboo structures...15k per sqm. Above my budget. I was imagining modern interpretation of bamboo pavilion but they say not cheaper than regular build. I'm pretty sure I can build much cheaper than that.  I got a few books on it. I wonder if I can just DIY everything, including soaking in borax/boric acid. We're partially sheltered by the trees and some bahay kubo's on the site which are still around, also a structure which has a nipa roof. I'll use GI sheet though. Not quite decided on bamboo yet though.

 

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JamesMusslewhite
Posted (edited)

   Actually bamboo has a tinsel stronger than steel https://engineeringdiscoveries.com/2018/12/02/why-bamboo-is-more-stronger-than-steel-reinforcement/. There are 7 primary species of bamboo found here in the Philippines, of which several are referred to as 'Chinese' bamboo. These are the thicker-walled varieties which of course have the highest tinsel strength. Bamboo can also be treated making it an excellent bog-resistant long-lasting building material. https://www.bamboo-earth-architecture-construction.com/bamboo-treatment/.

 

   The only real issue other than storm damage when using natural nepa as a building is they do not last well beyond one season, and they dry and attract insects. This causes small nepa-chips, insect sawdust and insect feces to constantly raindown on your food and patrons, plus the regular expense of re-roofing and lost revenue do to closings. But they do make a synthetic 'nepa roof squares' and 'thatch roof squares' which are manufactured in China so they should be able to be purchased direct from the manufacturer. These if used would be light-weight and long lasting. They could be easily lashed firmly to the ceiling-framing, and then have additional artificial nepa or thatch layers epoxied on one side and simply applied over the previous roof layer. This should make for a traditional roofing look, but one that is far more storm worthy and completely insect free. https://www.backyardxscapes.com/thatch-products/artificial-thatch/

 

Synthetic-Palm-Thatch-Roofing-Tile-KBMJE

th?id=OIP.mBym8jhpO6Ud01S3IXbgIgHaEK&pid

 

 

Edited by JamesMusslewhite
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jojogumabew

I know someone who used plastic nipa - his was from  germany though. Seems be ok after 7 years. 

For the nipa, I plan to soak in boric acid/borax and put under the GI sheets. GI sheets good quality galvalume is about P500 per sqm so about 50k for 100 sqm. 

For the base, I think building on compacted fill would work and just have some rebar on top. fill is P4-6k for 18cubic meter dump truck. so for 80 sqm maybe about 6 trucks worth. i need to add fill also around so the site drains better.

Am slightly worried about the cost of the geotextile for the pond as that alone based on initial quotes would cost about 40k just for the membrane. 

I have some old wooden beams that i could use but i need to turn over the structure after 13 years, unless he renews or I buy the property. he is giving me a right to match an offer if he decides to sell but right now he is asking for 2x + what I'd be willing to pay for the property

I could also use the geotextile for soaking the bamboo but i worry it would kill any fish i put in the pond. would need to put some fish to eat the mosquitos

 

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to_dave007
9 hours ago, Headshot said:

It isn't the tensile strength of bamboo that comes into question on nipa houses during a typhoon. It is the nipa roof being torn off by the wind and the house being washed away by the storm surge. If you build on the coast in areas where typhoons are common, you should expect to lose everything the next time a big storm hits.

Everything?

Everything?

Really.. I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

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Headshot
14 hours ago, to_dave007 said:

Everything?

Everything?

Really.. I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

I didn't say you WILL lose everything ... only that you should expect to. That way, you will be pleasantly surprised if anything survives a major storm.

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