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PhilsFan
12 hours ago, to_dave007 said:

Maybe I can get Roger to install one at his place in Asturias, so I can have enough juice to get over the hills on TransCentral.

For me, the low maintenance requirement, and energy cost reduction would be attractive.  95%+ of all trips I make are within the cars range..  say Tuburan to Bogo return or Tuburan to the city return (would need to charge in city..  or at Rogers place).

Things I'd wonder or worry about...

  1. Can I get over the mountain with a full load in car?
  2.  If I get LO BAT stranded in the province, how do I get rescued?  No-one has a porto-BAT.  Would need to carry a LONG extension cord and trickle charge from someone's house outlet.
  3.  Would like a little higher vehicle clearance underneath for these country roads.
  4.  The thing likely drives so quiet that people would be bumping into me out here.

Lastly..  You are right that you can likely get hotels to put in chargers to attract a higher class of customer.  But since higher class = higher price, I tend to prefer hotels that like a lower class of customer.

6

So much  intant torque you can go s fast as you want up ANY hill, loaded or not.

You will know before you leave just plug destination into the computer.  cAR WILL TELL YOU TO SLOW DOWN IF IT DETERMINES YOUR NOT GOING TO MAKE IT AT THE SPEED YOU ARE TRAVELING.

You will get at least 6km an hour plugged into the weakest of sari sari outlets.

Tire noise is typically loader than engine noise

 

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It's finally here! The $35k Tesla has arrived.  Order on your phone in 1-5 minutes, arrives at your home in 2-4 weeks. 7 day/1000 mile no-hassle return if not happy. 500K-1Mil mile driv

Boy you certainly wouldn't want to take a long trip if you have to stop every 170 miles to recharge.

Can anyone guess who has invested in Tesla stock ?

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PhilsFan
11 hours ago, Salty Dog said:

What if a couple of dozen are waiting in line ahead of you to charge their cars? 

Over 4 million miles of roads just in the USA. If the cars are the 3rd most popular cars being sold. There's going to have to be thousands of charger units. 

Just reserve your spot on the way. it will be waiting for you.  Or tell you ahead of time what the wait-time will be. This is not a problem that happens often. Superchargers in heavily used areas are being expanded quickly. Tesla knows where it's cars are at what typical times...they install for demand. Some locations in Calif have 50 plus stalls.  Yes, there ARE thousands of charger units right now as I stated upthread. They know how many they have to install based on cars sold and traffic patterns. Is everything 100% perfect every time on a 5 year-old-worldwide system? 

No.

I recall waiting in line for fuel a time or two as well. 

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PhilsFan
10 hours ago, dart69 said:

The vast majority of drivers, drive in urban areas almost exclusively, so Tesla makes sense there. 

I agree that much more work needs to be done before people buy them for longer distance forays.

Either faster charging, battery exchange systems, or just better capacity batteries will be needed.

1

much more work needs to be done before people buy them for longer distance forays. 

Sorry but, Tesla owners drive the shit out of these cars almost everywhere in the USA. They work.

Bat exchange was tried ( you can swap a tesla battery out in less than 5 min) No one used the service, not needed.

Capacities increasing but 300-400 mile range for cars seems to be the sweet spot. Charging times are typically 20 -30 minutes (while you eat or shop or whatever) Ever do a road trip with kids?

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PhilsFan
1 hour ago, lamoe said:


 

Read the story about the victory  - layout, closing, etc.

The map is present recharging stations across the country. Better not plan on driving across N. Dakota in January
 

image.thumb.png.a24b9becd9566a9485e6bf5a00bae5d2.png

 

 

 

Thank you, Moe, for the wonderful FUD article. The inaccuracies in that article are many. Including the Supercharger map.

Oil and car interests often pay for "hit" pieces against Tesla, especially in the last 2 years when they have been taking market share away from Big Auto most profitable lines.  Don't take my word for it, look at all the announcements from Big Auto. Layoffs and plant closures everywhere. Bottom line is NO one goes back to an ICE car once they have had electric. 95% Tesla owners satisfaction rate and re-buy rate.  

Big Auto has been saying for 6 years that they will produce a "Tesla Killer" So far, 6 years later they have the Audi, Jaguar and BMW. Hyundai's puts out a better electric vehicle than ANY of those brands, and for less money.

All of the "competitors to Tesla have not produced them in any type of quantity to be significant. Why? well, they don't control any battery production, for one and 2 they don't have the engineering and software talent. The biggest reason the other manufacturers don't produce electrics in quantity is THEY LOSE MONEY ON EVERY ONE THEY BUILD. 

Tesla maintains a 20-40% margin on Model S and X. Model 3 margin on the performance and upgraded cars is similar. The battle has been how to get the 35K car down to where they at least break even or make a small profit. They have done that now and margins will increase with time. 

Edit: Moe North Dakota was my problem, too as I worked there when Tesla first came out and I wanted one. North Dakota basically is the bastard child due to oil hostilities, and because NO ONE LIVES THERE.  They do have chargers at hotels, and Superchargers are going in this year...but yeah, Tesla basically gave ND the big FU for the last 5 years or so.

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PhilsFan
1 hour ago, RogerDuMond said:

I don't think they will sell worth a damn here.

And what happens when you run out of charge stuck in traffic in Manila.

Think again, no way in hell I would waste my money on that crap.

Roger? Tell the truth now...you still use a Rotary phone at home on your desk, Yes?

The cheaper Chinese built invasion of electric cars will come to the Philippines first.  But if you are seeing a lot of new Rangers or high-end,  Honda/Toyota vehicles, those will be your Tesla buyers. The Tesla China plant may someday produce a sub 30 car or 20K car. It's been discussed but nothing in the works yet.

You don't go anywhere, Roger. why would you need a nice car or SUV?  Change is hard, I get it.

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Semper paratus

Replacement battery costs and frequency ?  Electricity is not free folks especially in the Philippines. And they cannot even meet the demand now, How about when millions of cars need charging ? What fuel will be burned to produce the electricity ? How much pollution will that add ? What will happen to all the defunct batteries ? Can they be recycled ?  And at what costs ? What will happen to the cost of the raw materials to produce these billions of batteries and how large is the supply of same. The basic Tesla still costs double the price of a small gasoline car. Our Mirage GLS with auto trans, and a/c running constantly gets over 40 mpg. Stop and go city still 30 mpg plus.  Just how many miles would one have to drive to even break even on the price differential alone not counting battery replacement and all the other variables. I am a long long way from being sold on this deal. Every action has a reaction, fuels will still need to be burned or collected to produce the electricity and on and on. No fuel is truly renewable. That's is a whole new  subject.  And don't even try to say solar if free. Solar absorbs heat energy to the earth that is normally dispersed back into space. Thermal is cooling the center of the earth, at some point that will have a definite reaction. Exploring further into space may be the answer. Nothing is free. 

 

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lamoe
51 minutes ago, PhilsFan said:

Thank you, Moe, for the wonderful FUD article. The inaccuracies in that article are many. Including the Supercharger map.

Oil and car interests often pay for "hit" pieces against Tesla, especially in the last 2 years when they have been taking market share away from Big Auto most profitable lines.  Don't take my word for it, look at all the announcements from Big Auto. Layoffs and plant closures everywhere. Bottom line is NO one goes back to an ICE car once they have had electric. 95% Tesla owners satisfaction rate and re-buy rate.  

Big Auto has been saying for 6 years that they will produce a "Tesla Killer" So far, 6 years later they have the Audi, Jaguar and BMW. Hyundai's puts out a better electric vehicle than ANY of those brands, and for less money.

All of the "competitors to Tesla have not produced them in any type of quantity to be significant. Why? well, they don't control any battery production, for one and 2 they don't have the engineering and software talent. The biggest reason the other manufacturers don't produce electrics in quantity is THEY LOSE MONEY ON EVERY ONE THEY BUILD. 

Tesla maintains a 20-40% margin on Model S and X. Model 3 margin on the performance and upgraded cars is similar. The battle has been how to get the 35K car down to where they at least break even or make a small profit. They have done that now and margins will increase with time. 

Edit: Moe North Dakota was my problem, too as I worked there when Tesla first came out and I wanted one. North Dakota basically is the bastard child due to oil hostilities, and because NO ONE LIVES THERE.  They do have chargers at hotels, and Superchargers are going in this year...but yeah, Tesla basically gave ND the big FU for the last 5 years or so.

Surprise - I actually believe electric and other non-traditional fuel (not just electric)  vehicles along with non-fossil fuels are essential and show be encouraged.

To paint a picture that the Tesla 3 is for everyone  right now is a little premature.

My Aunt lives in Michigan (Watersmet) where it meets Wisconsin - 320 mile  in dead of winter that equates to 450 miles of energy (@ 60% efficiency) - at 178 ideal miles  per 30 min charge = 2 stops for charging maybe 3 (saftey)  - leaving house topped off = over 11/2 - 2  hour delay up - 2 / 3 on return trip same - maybe not  - minimum 3maybe 4  hours additional.

Have left at 6am - arrived in time for 5 hour visit  - brunch - return  - back by 9 PM  - including 1 gas stop  - the Tesla would get me back after midnight

Stops would have to be planned given the infrastructure along the way - say 3 hours additional?

That would be similar to traveling by car early in the 50's  - no superhighways - no gas station every 10 miles wherever you are. Spare gas can in car was a necessity not the oddity it is today.

Again, for my grandson - even daughter - a definite possibility - next 10 / 20 years - ? - but that doesn't mean a new fantastic personnel energy source won't change the game soon.

 

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PhilsFan
53 minutes ago, lamoe said:

Surprise - I actually believe electric and other non-traditional fuel (not just electric)  vehicles along with non-fossil fuels are essential and show be encouraged.

To paint a picture that the Tesla 3 is for everyone  right now is a little premature.

My Aunt lives in Michigan (Watersmet) where it meets Wisconsin - 320 mile  in dead of winter that equates to 450 miles of energy (@ 60% efficiency) - at 178 ideal miles  per 30 min charge = 2 stops for charging maybe 3 (saftey)  - leaving house topped off = over 11/2 - 2  hour delay up - 2 / 3 on return trip same - maybe not  - minimum 3maybe 4  hours additional.

Have left at 6am - arrived in time for 5 hour visit  - brunch - return  - back by 9 PM  - including 1 gas stop  - the Tesla would get me back after midnight

Stops would have to be planned given the infrastructure along the way - say 3 hours additional?

That would be similar to traveling by car early in the 50's  - no superhighways - no gas station every 10 miles wherever you are. Spare gas can in car was a necessity not the oddity it is today.

Again, for my grandson - even daughter - a definite possibility - next 10 / 20 years - ? - but that doesn't mean a new fantastic personnel energy source won't change the game soon.

 

Sorry, Moe, those times are just inaccurate. Remember too that it's early days. If you work hard enough at it, YOU CAN find a scenario where it might take a little longer. Tesla had NO SUPERCHARGERS 5 years ago and were working on razors thin margins at the time...yet they have accomplished all of these revolutionary things. Now, they have FCF of over a billion every quarter and growing that number by 50-75%/year to build and expand. Countries all over the world are begging Tesla to build a plant and will supply low interest/sweetheart deals to get manufacturing plants.

Tesla no longer needs Wallstreet, they can now internally fund all growth. Tesla does not expand linearly...they expand exponentially. Google/Amazon/Apple...huge growth as we have seen. Tesla's growth rate and FCF will dwarf them over time. They are disrupting at least 2 Trillion dollar industries and you could make the case for 3 to 4, actually.

Look at Amazon's growth rate from 2012 on and you will see what's happening with Tesla. Amazon sold books online then went to retail and found more efficient ways to mass Mkt.  Amazons best revenue generator now is Cloud computing. So, Amazon disrupted 2 Industries and is (depending on the day) valued at close to a Trillion dollars.

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PhilsFan
1 hour ago, Semper paratus said:

Replacement battery costs and frequency ?  Electricity is not free folks especially in the Philippines. And they cannot even meet the demand now, How about when millions of cars need charging ? What fuel will be burned to produce the electricity ? How much pollution will that add ? What will happen to all the defunct batteries ? Can they be recycled ?  And at what costs ? What will happen to the cost of the raw materials to produce these billions of batteries and how large is the supply of same. The basic Tesla still costs double the price of a small gasoline car. Our Mirage GLS with auto trans, and a/c running constantly gets over 40 mpg. Stop and go city still 30 mpg plus.  Just how many miles would one have to drive to even break even on the price differential alone not counting battery replacement and all the other variables. I am a long long way from being sold on this deal. Every action has a reaction, fuels will still need to be burned or collected to produce the electricity and on and on. No fuel is truly renewable. That's is a whole new  subject.  And don't even try to say solar if free. Solar absorbs heat energy to the earth that is normally dispersed back into space. Thermal is cooling the center of the earth, at some point that will have a definite reaction. Exploring further into space may be the answer. Nothing is free. 

 

12

Ok. That's just nuts and is backed by NO reputable scientific data whatsoever.

These cars are coming whether you like it or not. And thats the bottom line.

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lamoe
2 hours ago, PhilsFan said:

Sorry, Moe, those times are just inaccurate. Remember too that it's early days. If you work hard enough at it, YOU CAN find a scenario where it might take a little longer. Tesla had NO SUPERCHARGERS 5 years ago and were working on razors thin margins at the time...yet they have accomplished all of these revolutionary things. Now, they have FCF of over a billion every quarter and growing that number by 50-75%/year to build and expand. Countries all over the world are begging Tesla to build a plant and will supply low interest/sweetheart deals to get manufacturing plants.

Tesla no longer needs Wallstreet, they can now internally fund all growth. Tesla does not expand linearly...they expand exponentially. Google/Amazon/Apple...huge growth as we have seen. Tesla's growth rate and FCF will dwarf them over time. They are disrupting at least 2 Trillion dollar industries and you could make the case for 3 to 4, actually.

Look at Amazon's growth rate from 2012 on and you will see what's happening with Tesla. Amazon sold books online then went to retail and found more efficient ways to mass Mkt.  Amazons best revenue generator now is Cloud computing. So, Amazon disrupted 2 Industries and is (depending on the day) valued at close to a Trillion dollars.

They are correct - I've made that journey many times - traveling at 75 Mph when possible then 30 or less in the various little towns. 5 hrs - non-stop - over 400 miles on a tankful

My point was - if you never leave LA NYC etc. or the coasts then it might work for you.

For the fly over states we'll have to wait until the others make it practical.

I gave real world examples and data.

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Semper paratus
2 hours ago, PhilsFan said:

Ok. That's just nuts and is backed by NO reputable scientific data whatsoever.

These cars are coming whether you like it or not. And thats the bottom line.

I haven't seen any answers, rebuttals, or solutions offered to my statements.  Therefore nothing has been provided in return so that's just plain nuts. Note , I "never" said I didn't like it. My questions remain whether you like it or not. 

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savarity




Oil and car interests often pay for "hit" pieces against Tesla, especially in the last 2 years when they have been taking market share away from Big Auto most profitable lines.  Don't take my word for it, look at all the announcements from Big Auto. Layoffs and plant closures everywhere. Bottom line is NO one goes back to an ICE car once they have had electric. 95% Tesla owners satisfaction rate and re-buy rate.  


You mean like the F-150? Trucks, SUVs and such are often the most profitable for mainline manufacturers.

My first study was in electronic engineering technology, I'm all for electric cars, but I think Tesla has a passionate, undeterred, even rabid fanbase. You kind of hint at this with the re-buy rates, etc. When one looks outside of Tesla, other electric cars aren't as well received and have terrible resale values. Personally, I wouldn't mind owning one though, and hope they keep getting more popular.
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PhilsFan
2 hours ago, lamoe said:

They are correct - I've made that journey many times - traveling at 75 Mph when possible then 30 or less in the various little towns. 5 hrs - non-stop - over 400 miles on a tankful

My point was - if you never leave LA NYC etc. or the coasts then it might work for you.

For the fly over states we'll have to wait until the others make it practical.

I gave real world examples and data.

4

Moe,  They sell tons of Teslas in Illnois and Minnesota. Why? Because they just plain work. Can you make up a situation where it might not work after lesss than 5 years of building a network? Yes. But not for long. Expect charge times  to drop by 30% by the end of this year, too.

Get back to me after you have driven one.  If you can find a situation where the car won't work for you, then switch with your neighbor for a day or two. They won't mind, Lol. 

 

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RogerDuMond
9 hours ago, PhilsFan said:

Roger? Tell the truth now...you still use a Rotary phone at home on your desk, Yes?

No, landlines are not available here.

9 hours ago, PhilsFan said:

You don't go anywhere, Roger. why would you need a nice car or SUV? 

I don't need one, I have three now, none of which I drive.

6 hours ago, PhilsFan said:

These cars are coming whether you like it or not. And thats the bottom line.

My opinion remains the same, the only place that there might be a market is Manila and the persistent traffic jams there and limited charge life makes their use there senseless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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lamoe
7 hours ago, PhilsFan said:

Moe,  They sell tons of Teslas in Illnois and Minnesota. Why? Because they just plain work. Can you make up a situation where it might not work after lesss than 5 years of building a network? Yes. But not for long. Expect charge times  to drop by 30% by the end of this year, too.

Get back to me after you have driven one.  If you can find a situation where the car won't work for you, then switch with your neighbor for a day or two. They won't mind, Lol. 

 

Never said they don't - just not for everyone and I was one of them.

I live here now - should I still buy one?

Do you own one here?

Yes - if your network isn't where it needs to be.

I've agreed that they or perhaps a different type of fuel are the future - just not the present for some people but you seem unable to accept that because it's not what you what for everyone, now.

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