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Why Aren't Millennials Spending?


Salty Dog

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Headshot
6 hours ago, shadow said:

These people are all millennials?

Aren't Millenials defined as anybody born between 1985 and 2005? If so, then almost all of his examples are, indeed, Millenials.

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After high school, 1962, applied for a job as a tool makers apprentice. The guy said I can't hire you as you haven't completed your military service.  !967 after serving 4 years I went back to that sa

I'm blatantly biased because I am proud of my kids.  I believe that opportunity exists for those willing to work for them. My 35 year old daughter is an architect..  with a free Masters degree co

You divide the world into WORKING CLASS and HIGHLY EDUCATED AND AMBITIOUS and you seem to suggest working class folks have nothing to aspire to. My brother.. the father of my millennial EMT niece

10 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Aren't Millenials defined as anybody born between 1985 and 2005? If so, then almost all of his examples are, indeed, Millenials.

Depends on source

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shadow
2 hours ago, Headshot said:

Aren't Millenials defined as anybody born between 1985 and 2005? If so, then almost all of his examples are, indeed, Millenials.

I'm certain that as usual you are much more informed than I, but I probably mistakenly so just assumed someone in their 50s would not be considered a millennial.

 

I guess I am a millennial too!

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Semper paratus
11 hours ago, dart69 said:

'Still plenty of good job opportunities out there for those willing to work.'

Maybe in your world. In the real world that is not the case. 

Almost every employer wants fully trained and 5+ years experience for entry level jobs, almost no employers are willing to train on the job anymore. Everything is changing too fast for them to take that risk.

Yet how the hell is anyone supposed get experience if nobody will let them learn it?

Work for free to get experience some say. That has zero basis in reality. Nobody can afford to work for free unless they don't actually need to work.

My generation and the previous ones have completely distorted the reality that my children and their children have to live in, an then we call them lazy and unmotivated. Only the blind could come to that conclusion.

My generation has had it difficult, but the ones before had it easy compared to what the younger generations have to face. Life is several orders of magnitude more complicated now than it was in past generations. 

After high school, 1962, applied for a job as a tool makers apprentice. The guy said I can't hire you as you haven't completed your military service.  !967 after serving 4 years I went back to that same company, was interviewed by the same guy. He said, I cant hire you, we are only hiring people with experience. I wanted to choke the guy. I went to a company right next door to him, they sent me to take some tests. I was hired the next day in the inventory control and purchasing department. That was far from my last job but it was a fair start. I worked all kinds of jobs of all types just trying to figure out what I like or wanted to be. Construction, factories, office, sales, name it. I am still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up. if nothing else it was an interesting ride.                                                                                                    The bottom line for those kids is to keep trying.

 

 

 

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You divide the world into WORKING CLASS and HIGHLY EDUCATED AND AMBITIOUS and you seem to suggest working class folks have nothing to aspire to.
My brother.. the father of my millennial EMT niece..  worked as a laborer in a steel mill.
My brother.. the father of my millennial electrician nephew and chemist niece..  is a lineman for electrical distribution company, and still goes up the poles in his 50's.
Working class background need not prevent the next generation from accomplishing a good life.  
My remarkable millennial bartender friend was homeless in her teens..  the product of a criminal father and addict mother..  but still managed to pull her own life together.
The statistics may be correct, but those willing to work have LOTS to look forward to.  And those who don't wish to work..  well..  they will reap the rewards of their own labor.


I mentioned two paths, I never said these were the ONLY two paths.

The rest somewhat contradicts your position. If the statistics are correct, as you say, then really that directly contradict your position.

However, the very examples you give somewhat contradict as well. You mostly reference laborers from past generations who were successful and who have well educated millennial children. Only the bartender example is given as a (potentially) less educated example, and it sounds more like that person is just getting by...
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mikewright

I think we baby boomers had it easier as young kids, at least in Oz. From 1974 to 1989 we had free University, and even after 1989 fees were heavily subsidised. Jobs were easier to find, and there was a lot more job security. Housing was affordable.

Now, the job security is no longer there. So many kids now being hired on a temporary or contract basis, rather than permanently. This makes it much harder to get a home loan, even if you manage to save up a deposit. The median house price in Sydney is over $1.1 million, making it pretty difficult to purchase now. Without help from parents, it would take five years just to get the initial deposit, assuming you can save $400 a week. Rents are high, so many have no hope of saving a deposit unless they live at home.

University students now have to finance fees through a loan scheme and start their working career with a huge debt. Not commenting on the necessity to charge fees, just that for many of us boomers we had a free ride for decades.

Despite this, I see many of the kids getting good jobs, working hard and getting ahead. They just don't seem to have the same options we had.

 

 

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Salty Dog

All I know is in my area of Florida, there are more jobs available than people to fill them.

Sure some are entry level jobs, but many pay a decent wage and have a chance for advancement.

I think some young people think they should be able to start off with a high paying job like their parents have.

I remember reading somewhere that many don't want to buy entry level homes, but instead want a home like their parents have.

They want new cars and $1,000 smartphones. Mike said he thinks we had it easier than they do. Well that might seem true because we didn't want it all at once.

I think millennials have had it better growing up than any past groups. Most have never wanted for anything. Which some feel is their problem...

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to_dave007
30 minutes ago, Salty Dog said:

.. many don't want to buy entry level homes, but instead want a home like their parents have.

.. want new cars and $1,000 smartphones..

.. millennials have had it better growing up … have never wanted for anything. Which some feel is their problem...

Agree !!.  

To graduate her Masters Degree completely debt free, aside from a scholarship, my oldest daughter didn't buy a car, even though she lived in a city away from her mum..  and had to tough it out in Canadian winter to bring groceries home throughout her entire university time.  She COULD have bought a car, but she chose not to, and rode a bike locally in her university town, and shared rides back to her mothers place about 90 minutes away.  She sacrificed.  Now, she and her husband own one car..  even though they could easily afford two.

My 23 year old worked the candy counter and the ticket desk at the local famous players theatre for years.. often picking up every shift she could.  To save money she walked to work, and took her lunch with her.   She took off one year after high school to save more money and bump up some of her grades..  The end result..  $18,000 saved by age 18 to start university.  She will graduate with about $10,000 left, and zero debt.  And she still does not own a car.

One thing that has helped in my family is that we were raised frugal..  No-one wears designer jeans..  and no-one owns an iPhone.  When my daughter (now 18) needed to attend a wedding..  she bought her shoes and dress at Value Village..  second hand.. for $20.  She has great taste..  and with a little creative alteration..  she looked great.

And both my 23 year old and 18 year old daughters mostly dumped Facebook at least 2 years ago.  They post something perhaps twice a year.. take almost no selfies..  and use only Facebook Messenger.  As my 23 year old said about 3 years ago..  "I prefer face-to-face instead of Facebook."

 

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How many of old farts (Boomers) had to wait?

Wait for first new car (not used), first house (small) , big TV, upgraded stereo, etc,.

https://www.lindseypollak.com/instant-gratification-and-the-need-for-speed/

Quote

MILLENNIALS AT WORK: INSTANT GRATIFICATION AND THE NEED FOR SPEED

February 11, 2014 By Lindsey Pollak 

The infamous traits of the Millennial generation have been studied, discussed and debated far and wide: they’re always connected, they’re ambitious, they’re approval oriented and more. In this series of blog posts, “Millennials at Work,” I’m diving into each of these stereotypes and discussing how they impact this generation and those of us who work with them.

Millennials (a.k.a Generation Y) are the instant gratification generation. They literally hold the world in their hands and have done so from a very young age.

If you are a Millennial and wonder what Drake is thinking or doing right now, you can find out on Twitter.

If, while watching the 2014 Super Bowl halftime show, you wondered how old Bruno Mars was, you could Google it (he’s 28, by the way).

If you wonder what your friends will think of a new pair of shoes, you can snap a picture and ask about it on Instagram, Facebook or Snapchat.

The Millennial generation is accustomed to having questions answered quickly, acting on that knowledge immediately and receiving feedback on demand. How does this sense of instant gratification play out at work?

A DESIRE FOR CONTINUOUS FEEDBACK AND IMPROVEMENT

Perhaps due to heavily involved parenting, the ability to score Facebook “likes,” the rush of success from completing challenges in video games or a combination of them all, Generation Y expects feedback on a constant basis. This can drive Baby Boomer and Gen X managers crazy, but I prefer to view this as a positive trait: Why not celebrate the fact that Millennial employees want frequent guidance so they can adjust, pivot and shift what they are doing and make progress?

Of course, the trick for ambitious Millennials is to gain the benefits of feedback without going overboard. For young workers, it’s important to recognize this tendency and remember that generations above you are not used to it. Asking for feedback constantly may drain your boss’s energy. You can make it easier on both of you by setting specific goals and tracking your own progress toward them. Check out some apps you can use to help you with measuring your progress. You can also ask your boss directly how and when he or she prefers to provide feedback so you can manage your own expectations and get the most out of those moments.

For employers, there’s no getting around the fact that the newest members of your workforce are going to seek evaluation often. But, giving more input on performance doesn’t always have to come from one manager. In fact, Salesforce’s Work.com allows multiple people to provide feedback to employees, and Facebook is an example of a company using the tool successflully.

RECOGNIZING WHEN FASTER ISN’T BETTER

Another way instant gratification plays out in the workforce is when Millennials assume in any given situation that the faster they accomplish a particular goal, the better. However, this isn’t always the case, especially when human interactions are involved. For example, it might be easier to text a client when you can anticipate being late for a meeting, but a phone call could add the personal touch that lets your client know you care. You might want to seem efficient by getting back to your boss’s email ASAP, but make sure you proofread it before you send to avoid typos or a questionable tone. Sometimes the little things that slow you down are really the essentials for creating positive perceptions.

One final noteworthy way that instant gratification plays out at work is also in Gen Y’s sense of ambition, which I’ve written about in a previous post in this series.

 

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19 hours ago, mikewright said:

So many kids now being hired on a temporary or contract basis, rather than permanently.

Correct - certainly one of the major issues for kids - and older workers - in Australia today. The employment market there has been moving towards part-time or casual employment in place of full-time positions for years.  That used to be common in the hospitality industry - but is now creeping into all kinds of roles. 

There are many benefits to the employers to have a pool of staff rather than full time staff with all their costly "benefits". It is also simpler to get rid of employees  - just lower their number of shifts until they simply go away.  I have seen this often when my children, relatives and friend's children were all employed whilst doing other studies.

My son - with a now useless degree in Jouralism (thank the iPad for killing off the majority of those roles) works back in 2 retail roles while applying for "social media marketing" and similar roles over and over.

My daughter - works in Industrial Labour Law - and scares me with many horror stories about the current employment practices across several industries.

A big part of why Australian Millenials are not spending as much - is (if they are smart) - they are stashing away what cash is left after student loans - in case one of their 2 part-time or casual jobs starts to fade away...... employment anxiety is a real issue.

The smarter ones - come to their parents for no interest ( and often no principal ) loans instead :D

 

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SkyMan
On 12/8/2018 at 2:35 AM, dart69 said:

Almost every employer wants fully trained and 5+ years experience for entry level jobs, almost no employers are willing to train on the job anymore. Everything is changing too fast for them to take that risk.

Yet how the hell is anyone supposed get experience if nobody will let them learn it?

Yeah, I was saying this myself the other day....   (And by other day, I mean 40 years ago.)

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On 12/8/2018 at 2:35 AM, dart69 said:

Almost every employer wants fully trained and 5+ years experience for entry level jobs, almost no employers are willing to train on the job anymore. Everything is changing too fast for them to take that risk.

 

 

There are several types of "work experience"

The most important is experience working.

Actually getting your ass to work on time and doing what you agreed to do in return for money.

Depending on the position, you might have to start in the "mail room" before you get to work in the front office.

I can only speak for my own experiences - I started out as a detailer / drawing copier (before Xerox and large inkjet printers from files) - worked way to draftsman then designer.

The impression today is  many want to start out near the top and then work their way up.

20 / 30 years ago -  that vid - "I can't work weekends, nights, mornings, cover for others" - would have generated laughs because you knew it was fake - today it's no laughing matter.

 

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Semper paratus

Let me see ho many jobs I can recall having.

At 11 years old the parents had to sign to allow me to deliver a junk newspaper because I wasn't 12 yet. Oh before that I had a Kool-Aid and pretzel stand ,  started with Kool-Aid and made a profit so i could buy some pretzels to sell. Mowed lawns, shoveled snow, We also collected newspapers that we could sell to the recycle yard, and picked up returnable deposit it bottles. At 13 or so got a real paper route for the Detroit news. I got to know the owner of a gas station that was on the corner of my route. At 13 he hired me to pump gas. We checked the air in all tires if requested and we offered, washed the windshield and back window, checked the oil and fan belts etc.. I worked that job for 5 years while going to high school. I worked from 3:00 until 10:00 usually alone> did oil changes, pumped gas, fixed flat tires, sold TBA ( tires, batteries and accessories) like wiper blades. Rebuilt or replaced generators and starter motors, carburetor, and so on. we also had a car wash in one long bay, I did that in my spare time. Also in the winter we stored tractors for plowing snow off the sidewalks and the owner on that hired me also to plow snow , it paid much better than the gas station and the station pay wasn't bad, I made more than most of my friends. The snow route usually ended up being at night when no one was on the sidewalks so it didn't interfere too much with my school or gas station duties. I was only robbed one time in those 5 years. Just some local hoods. That was all up until I was 18 and went into the military for 4 years. In there we had very small units so we were heavily cross trained for many jobs, firefighting, engineman/repair maintenance, Federal boarding officer, search and rescue, boat handler, radio operator, and on and on. Whew I am tired already. Now it gets tougher to recall all the jobs as there were many, by choice. I was never fired. production control clerk, high-low driver, inventory control and purchasing, (each job was with a different company), shaper operator, snag grinder, telephone company installer, pole climber, etc,, assistant repo man, then  striper, line painting parking spots and lots, running tracks, tennis courts, airports, installing cement bumpers, seal coating commercial size driveways and parking lots ans so on. Draftsman trainee and detailer. Steel mill for seamless tubing do many different jobs, Next , oh at the same time I was taking care of a small horse farm and all that goes with it. I got paid room and board for myself and my horse for doing that, worked afternoons at the steel mill. Next went to horseshoeing school 4 months  in Grapevine Texas ,tried that for a while. Then on a fluke ended up in inside sales for a carbide company, moved to estimating for them. Moved to another carbide company for better pay. Then some guys I knew wanted me to do outside sales for them at their machine shop. they base pay alone was twice what i was making so how could I say no. In 2 years I was making more than the owners with my commission, long story. Making more than them turned out not well. tried being a sales rep for another guy, sold some machines, but it wasn't my cup of tea. went back to my first carbide company job, this time as a supervisor of their estimating department. It was pretty good. but I got talked into taking a job estimating at an out of state company that was  doing a new procedure of injection molding various metals, and ceramics. One year and the investors pulled the plug because they didn't like us making some gun parts. had to move back. Took a job a  tap and die company doing various office duties, purchasing, inventory and so on. Bad pay. Moved downstate to a small carbide company doing estimating and inside sales. After about 10 years moved a small carbide tool manufacturer doing estimating,  and then to selling for a diamond tool company. By chance or destiny after a short while I was offered the job I has always wanted as a regional sales manager for another carbide company. After just 2 years I was making more than the president of that company, Ooops., but i did last 10 years there. i think making more than him and anyone else became a problem. Isn't that something.  At two companies making more than the bossiness became a problem. you'd think they's be happy about that, record sales. I am quite sure I had some other jobs way back when but the brain is tired now and the above should give an idea of what can be done. The millennials should take heed. I made this as short as possible, sorry about that, but it was what it was. 

Cheers :o)

 

 

 

 

 

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On 12/7/2018 at 3:43 PM, to_dave007 said:

You divide the world into WORKING CLASS and HIGHLY EDUCATED AND AMBITIOUS and you seem to suggest working class folks have nothing to aspire to.

My brother.. the father of my millennial EMT niece..  worked as a laborer in a steel mill.

My brother.. the father of my millennial electrician nephew and chemist niece..  is a lineman for electrical distribution company, and still goes up the poles in his 50's.

Working class background need not prevent the next generation from accomplishing a good life.  

My remarkable millennial bartender friend was homeless in her teens..  the product of a criminal father and addict mother..  but still managed to pull her own life together.

The statistics may be correct, but those willing to work have LOTS to look forward to.  And those who don't wish to work..  well..  they will reap the rewards of their own labor.

EMT??   My buddy Jack is a retired EMT from Florida.  My neighbor is an EMT in Naples Fl.  The neighbor in inflation adjust dollars is making about 1/2 of what Jack made at that age and has no where near the benefits that Jack had.

I retired 20 years ago as a rail road engineer,  due to health reasons I never made a lot of money but did pretty good for myself.  The people hiring out today are making what I made 20 years ago and now they will not hire anyone without a degree.  

I saw a company drop a bid for a project as they could not find welders.  Welders?  Give me 6 months to a year and I could turn most peoples wives into pretty good welders.  So I looked and they don't want welders they want welding engineers for chump change! 

My best friend is a project manager with blue ribbon credentials, worked all over the world. Clean rooms for US Gov, coke ovens in Europe. Moved to Canada as he cannot find decent paying work in the US.

Cape Coral Florida is looking into building housing for teachers because they cannot afford to live anywhere in the area for what they are paid!



Remember this line, "hear that sucking sound, that is your jobs going to Mexico".

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to_dave007
5 hours ago, Jester said:

EMT??   My buddy Jack is a retired EMT from Florida.  My neighbor is an EMT in Naples Fl.  The neighbor in inflation adjust dollars is making about 1/2 of what Jack made at that age and has no where near the benefits that Jack had.

Fair enough..  but my EMT niece and her teacher husband bought a nice suburban 3 BR house in Ottawa, and rented out their basement for the first few years to a friend of theirs to help pay the mortgage.  Now..  10+ years later the room mate is gone..  and 3 kids fill the house..  and the mortgage no longer stretches their finances.

I won't talk about employment opportunities for the over 50 set..  as I know those opportunities are scarce.  It's one of the reasons I am in the PI.

No question about it though..  todays millennials face an employment market that is very different than the one we had in the 70's.  My point is that, despite the differences, there are STILL opportunities for those willing to put in the effort.  There are STILL millennials who build a successful livelihood and life.  Hard work STILL has value.  The dream still exists..  even in Canada.

Didn't say it was easy.  Just said it was still possible.

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