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Comparing Philippine's Education to Other Countries

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liquido
On 5/30/2018 at 2:54 PM, Bob in Iligan said:

I really dislike the "Filipino Pride" mentality in it's belief of entitlement.  It's ignorance of performance against other countries.   You have to earn pride, and it comes from doing things better than others, not from just being born somewhere.  

You understand the system here very well....

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Kreole
On 5/30/2018 at 2:54 PM, Bob in Iligan said:

I am most depressed about education in the Philippines.  I'm a retired professor.   I am homeschooling two kids, the second grader reads at the college level and does algebra.   The first grader reads at 9th grade level and is in 4th grade math.   We put our whole lives into these kids, their education.   Both of us.  They do music and MMA too.  We choose what we do for socialization, the school is the last place we would ever send them for socialization.   They socialized with a beehive of Filipinos four months this year.  In Iligan City.  We homeschooled there too.  

I had to consider education for my wife and her siblings, our own children, our extended family.   It's bleak.   I would say the educational system is doing exactly what it was designed to do: create mindless automatons, to never ask questions, to accept arbitrary authority, to be gullible and stupid, frankly.  Insofar as the state system is concerned.  

I studied the exam scores coming out of the various high schools test scores like the SASE on Mindanao.  Some high schools are putting out zero students making that cut-off score and for others, half the graduating class does.   It is extreme difference across schools.   Obviously the elite private schools are generally the best but it isn't always true and I know why but don't want to broach the subject yet.   There are some parochial schools that do really well.   But the public schools in the poor areas, nobody even comes close to passing the SASE cut-off score.  

The average IQ in the Philippines is 85.   That is one full standard deviation below the USA.   I think we have to acknowledge the genetics of intelligence.   But it is not all genetic and again look at Singapore with IQ 108.   They worked their way up there through a conscious national zealotry over education.  They are not that genetically distinct from Filipinos.   Look all over SE Asia and you see high IQ's.  Filipinos are really under-performing relative to their genetic potential, it seems to me.  Our kids are off the charts because we are like Singapore.   Working our asses off.  

The teachers come from the lowest professional cohort, they can't afford to pay what an engineer or business school graduate is paid.  The schools of education are filled with "paper mills" that don't actually have classes or do superfluous busywork they've just made up.   Really fly-by-night organizations, nobody can pass the qualifying professional exam but the schools have to hire them anyway because that is all they have to hire.  It is a terrible mess.

I can only say that as a parent you have to do it yourself.   Even the best private schools, they don't have a chance against committed parents.  

But if the topic is comparing Singapore to Philippines, then one thing is very clear:  Yew in Singapore galvanized the nation to first become self-aware at their performance in all areas of economics, education, and etc. compared to other countries.   They dared to beat everyone else through a conscious national effort.  They looked at what other countries were doing.   What worked and what didn't.

I really dislike the "Filipino Pride" mentality in it's belief of entitlement.  It's ignorance of performance against other countries.   You have to earn pride, and it comes from doing things better than others, not from just being born somewhere.  

The Filipinos do not participate in international testing.   I guess they'll just be proud of themselves without seeing how they look in math, reading, and writing.   

Humility and hard work would serve them better as a national motto.  And that filters right down through all the schools, who in Singapore are filled with the competitive spirit of being #1 on the PISA tests.   Filipinos don't even take it, and that's what's wrong.   I go so far as to call it stupid pride.   I do not mean that as a put-down but as constructive criticism.  

I have to agree about the "Filipino Pride".  I believe, like many things in the RP, it is just a way to overcompensate for a lack of anything to be proud about.  Proud about what??

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musicman666
47 minutes ago, Kreole said:

I have to agree about the "Filipino Pride".  I believe, like many things in the RP, it is just a way to overcompensate for a lack of anything to be proud about.  Proud about what??

A lot of the educated Filipinos here refer to this as Filipino fried chicken 

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lamoe
On 5/30/2018 at 8:14 PM, Richard K said:

"Understanding why something happens" is subjective.(at least sociatally)
Facts are not (historical data.."this happened this date and time").. science is not (repeatable proven results given the same criteria)... mathematics are not.. (Um..duh)
I do not care what country or what background.. if over-all access to knowledge is available then there will be those that will take advantage of that and excel... and there will be those that will reject that.. and do SOMETHING to live.. or live off the "dole"...or?... do vulcanizing.. or what have you
There are those here on this site that "degrade" institutional education, particularly American college education ...like it is some kind of "indoctrination" ...these are obviously people that have never attended any institutions of higher learning...beyond specific one time things.
A narrow road is comforting...
By the way... oil and water CAN actually mix.. it does all the time... you just can't expect it to be the way you want it to be


 

"if over-all access to knowledge is available then there will be those that will take advantage of that and excel."

I agree, if all things are equal, even if they're not, if options available.

The quality of access and quality of knowledge presented are what I believe some here are referring to.

I.E. Tulley H.S. vs Lane Tech - Chicago -1961 -  both public H.S. - both offer same mandated base courses - Tulley credits not recognized by any college - Lane  #1 public school - MIT and and others sent recruiters -  #3? when Catholic ones included.

Chicago school districts were mandated by area except Lane which drew city wide.

Skipped school one day (Lane) attended classes with my brother - teachers didn't know or care? I was there except when I was called on to  answer a question and did (who are you? Just transferred in  - oh, OK).

Brother could have gone to Lane - wanted to stay with his friends - didn't take advantage of  better education  option -  bad  life choice - not ever on dole but died early of lung cancer do to working in sand casting foundry.

Many colleges in US - not all - depending on location / subject - do politically indoctrinate their students while providing an education.  History is the most blatant since the prof can tailor the material presented to suit their beliefs  - lib or con  - hard sciences not so easy - didn't want to turn this into a CR topic so didn't copy / paste any links / text

Here - teachers generally present what's always been presented (rote learning not understand) so the student must make the choice to go against the grain to get a quality education? If so we agree again.

Even some historical data requires understanding the reasons why to dispel popular misconceptions..

Vietnam War dominated my draftees - 33% enlistees WWII, 66% Vietnam (understanding the social and economic conditions)

Yep they will mix  -  so the correct statement is -  oil and water will mix after the water is modified .

 

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lopburi3
On 5/30/2018 at 1:54 PM, Bob in Iligan said:

The average IQ in the Philippines is 85.   That is one full standard deviation below the USA. 

But in world context it still  puts the Philippines within the top group of countries - in position 21.

Edit:  after review of world list find the above 21st position is based on many countries being tied for same positions - so Philippines could be as low as 84 in world listing - not very good at all.

https://iq-research.info/en/average-iq-by-country

Suspect the education issues is a worldwide problem - know they have the same issues here in Thailand and obviously USA with all that is spent to offer specialized education does not rate much better.  It seems to be hard for any nation to encourage thinking over root (for obvious self protection reasons perhaps).  As I pass on and note almost all eye contact these days is with a phone with games or social media do not have a warm and pleasant feeling for the future.  Those computers may actually take control at some point - science fiction may well be tomorrow's reality.  

Positive attitude disclaimer.

Image result for positive attitude

Edited by lopburi3

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maximian
On 5/31/2018 at 9:25 AM, Irenicus said:

I interviewed nine college kids for an article not too long ago.  They were attending a prestigious local university that the US allows credit transfers from. All the students were foreigners (mostly American) and all said the same thing:  They love living here but the college system is like being back in high school - or junior high school.

They also loved the $1,200 a year tuition - as did their parents.

One of my daughters did the exchange program in the opposite direction in 2014. At the time she was studying at the University of the Philippines and spent a year at Michigan state university. She found the course work very easy and the Math was equivalent to what she study in 3rd and 4th  at UP High school. She also enjoyed her time in the US but, was a bit surprised by the illicit drug culture amongst university students.        All of my kids attended Elementary, High school and University in the Philippines and we are very pleased with the way they have turned out and what they have accomplished.                                            PS none of them can sing or dance!!

Edited by maximian
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Headshot
On 5/30/2018 at 9:54 AM, Headshot said:

The reality is that an education in the Philippines is not equivalent to an education in other countries.

I need to back up on that statement a little bit. I should have said an AVERAGE education in the Philippines is not equivalent to an AVERAGE education in other countries. The public school system (and many of the average private schools offer a poor education at best. College degrees from Philippine schools are seldom recognized at face value in other countries.

However, there ARE some great schools here in the Philippines. My daughter has completed first grade at SHS Ateneo de Cebu, and I am extremely impressed by what she has studied so far in her short academic career. First of all, most of the best private schools start out with two years of nursery school BEFORE a child enters Kindergarten. So, children should already have a decent foundation before they get to the first grade.

Even in pre-elementary classes I was surprised by what the children were taught. Those things that I learned in Kindergarten, my daughter learned in her first year of nursery school. Therefore, it isn't too surprising that she has learned things in first grade that I didn't learn until the third or fourth grade in the US. And she has also learned things that I never did have the opportunity to learn. For example, she can add and subtract multiple columns, she knows simple multiplication and division. She understands decimals, fractions and simple algebra. She is able to solve story problems (where the student must figure out what the proper equation and solution is). She also speaks two languages (English and Bisayan) fluently, and she has been learning Mandarin Chinese and Tagalog since nursery school.

There is proper discipline in the school and in the classroom, and they teach morals as well as academics. She has also learned how to swim and is working to get good enough to be on the school swim team. She also takes piano lessons and is starting on the ukulele. None of this is to say that my wife and I haven't played a huge role in her education. We study with her two to three hours every night, so she can keep up with (or stay ahead of) the class. The school makes it very easy to do that, as everything is laid out very well in her textbooks, and the teachers follow the textbooks methodically. We also make sure that has new and varied experiences in her off-time. She has done a lot of traveling in her short life, and she has seen a lot of things.

So far, my daughter has thrived under this system, and she achieved first honor for her hard work in the first grade. Education is by rote (memorization and repetitive study) in elementary grades around the world. They want to make sure that you have the basics down pat. However, secondary education should be about individual exploration, research and decision-making, and I'm not at all sure that even the better schools here excel in that. At least most of the schools here continue to teach by rote even through the secondary education years.

Edited by Headshot
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JamesMusslewhite

   In 2008 we moved to the Philippines. We located where there was a quality public High School so our son could get a decent education.  I had homeschooled him for several years before our move because I could select the quality of his curriculum as to best mirror Vanguard standards. Arthur did not speak Filipino or local dialects which did impose additional hardship on the boy which I regret. 

   When we arrived my wife quickly completed the paperwork necessary for him to become a duel citizen. We enrolled him in Caraga Regional Science High and he graduated 8th in his class. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caraga_Regional_Science_High_School I was active in PTA and became Class President and Sergeant of Arms School of the PTA. He received a very well rounded education in one of the best Public schools in the Philippines. His scores would have allowed him to attend any university in the Philippines.

   This subject as to the level and quality of education obtainable in the Philippines occupies at least one thread each year on the forum. What often seems missed is that world-wide there are over 26,000 Universities in the Philippines, not including colleges, jr. colleges and trade schools. The Philippines consistently has 3 Universities ranked in the top 900. A quality education is obtainable in the Philippines. If you make the effort to tutor your children, remain active in the PTA and genuinely communicate and work with the teachers; then you can keep your children motivated and focused.

   I have met far too many expats who are actually rather stupid individuals. Or they did not properly research to insure they located in areas which had good schools. Or their children did not achieve the grades needed to be accepted in better schools. The Philippines have a saying that sums up rather nicely. A coconut does not produce mangoes, and a coconut rarely falls far from tree. Meaning that if you are not actively engaged, and your children are dumb as a bag of rocks, then the odds are they are going to under perform. Trying to falsely try to lay the blame on an education system really does diminish the failings of the parents to uphold their obligation.

   If you actually do the research you will be amazed just how many so called prestigious Universities actually rank lower than Philippine Universities..... like over 25,000 of them.  :biggrin_01:        

Edited by JamesMusslewhite
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JohnSurrey
40 minutes ago, JamesMusslewhite said:

   In 2008 we moved to the Philippines. We located where there was a quality public High School so our son could get a decent education.  I had homeschooled him for several years before our move because I could select the quality of his curriculum as to best mirror Vanguard standards. Arthur did not speak Filipino or local dialects which did impose additional hardship on the boy which I regret. 

   When we arrived my wife quickly completed the paperwork necessary for him to become a duel citizen. We enrolled him in Caraga Regional Science High and he graduated 8th in his class. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caraga_Regional_Science_High_School I was active in PTA and became Class President and Sergeant of Arms School of the PTA. He received a very well rounded education in one of the best Public schools in the Philippines. His scores would have allowed him to attend any university in the Philippines.

   This subject as to the level and quality of education obtainable in the Philippines occupies at least one thread each year on the forum. What often seems missed is that world-wide there are over 26,000 Universities in the Philippines, not including colleges, jr. colleges and trade schools. The Philippines consistently has 3 Universities ranked in the top 900. A quality education is obtainable in the Philippines. If you make the effort to tutor your children, remain active in the PTA and genuinely communicate and work with the teachers; then you can keep your children motivated and focused.

   I have met far too many expats who are actually rather stupid individuals. Or they did not properly research to insure they located in areas which had good schools. Or their children did not achieve the grades needed to be accepted in better schools. The Philippines have a saying that sums up rather nicely. A coconut does not produce mangoes, and a coconut rarely falls far from tree. Meaning that if you are not actively engaged, and your children are dumb as a bag of rocks, then the odds are they are going to under perform. Trying to falsely try to lay the blame on an education system really does diminish the failings of the parents to uphold their obligation.

   If you actually do the research you will be amazed just how many so called prestigious Universities actually rank lower than Philippine Universities..... like over 25,000 of them.  :biggrin_01:        

I think  you've hit the nail on the head there - I guess the main problem for most expats is identifying the high performing school in the area in which they intend to live... most of the schools near us are, by all accounts, rubbish with one exception but that's a bit of a hike for our children at the moment so we'll have to grin and bear it.

 

 

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PhilsFan

My 10 yr old is doing really well, so proud of him. He missed Honors this year by 1 point in 2 classes to qualify...a great result for only his 2nd year in an Ateneo system. As has been mentioned by others here, we spend 2-3 hours a day making sure he knows the material and is prepared. It helps, too, he has a crush on the smartest girl in class!

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Headshot
2 hours ago, JamesMusslewhite said:

We enrolled him in Caraga Regional Science High and he graduated 8th in his class. 

The regional science high schools are exceptions in the public school system here. Even students from the Ateneo schools and the better international schools try to get admitted to the science high schools because they are that good. Students must pass an entrance exam to get admitted. However, the rest of the public schools (especially the secondary schools) are not nearly as good by comparison. If anybody doubts this statement, go and visit some public schools. They are disorganized and poorly maintained, and they education they provide is more reminiscent of rural US schools in the early twentieth century than they are of modern schools.

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max111

The education system in the Philippines seems to be lacking subjects that are required in similar programs internationally. When my ex wife came to Sweden I sent her university degree to the school here for comments/analysis. Outcome: She needs to read up on missing subjects!

Today, she is an assistent department manager here.

Many of you praise the basic schools and say they are a ahead of western schools.

To me, it seems that it's unbalanced teaching where they are way ahead in some subjects and behind or completely missing other subjects.

In western schools a balanced education system means that subjects are supposed to support the learning of other subjects.

 

Now, how do you who teach your kids at home get grades/certificates for the kids to be accepted to college?

Edited by max111
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Joe Sixpack

It's always interesting to hear how different expats rationalize their decisions to raise kids here.   I've got one starting 1st grade next week and I would say she's ahead of her peers in the US merely because this is her 4th year in a quality private school. 

 

We're happy with the education at this point but plan to have her in the US system by age 10...mainly to remove her from the toxic, corrupt culture here.  Yeah, she could get a good education here but there's a reason many rich filipinos send their kids abroad. 

 

I like living in the Philippines but not enough that I would ask my child to make sacrifices for me.  But everyone different...and thats my opinion.

Edited by Joe Sixpack
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liquido
1 hour ago, Joe Sixpack said:

Yeah, she could get a good education here but there's a reason many rich filipinos send their kids abroad. 

That does seem to be the case here...Even the highly talented kris Aquino went to school abroad...hehe

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rizla

Often the sending of children abroad has little to do with education and a lot to do with "Look what I can do'.

Asia in general, follows the Confusism ideology of listen and remember, rather than Socratism of the west, which teaches questioning and learning by experience and discovery. In my almost 10 years of teaching in China I have come to see a change in the teaching system, more and more teachers are accepting that while Confusism has its good points so also does the western system, they realise that teaching a complete subject well  has the same result as teaching to pass exams, but the big difference being, that the former system gives a far better result and that in turn lifts the entire country, as it produces people who question and learn throughout their lives.

I believe the same will happen in the RP, in time. Having said that it still saddens me that it is almost impossible for a well qualified and vastly experienced foreign teacher to get a full time job teaching in an RP high school or University. IMO if the Philippine education chiefs really want to improve, they need to employ decent foreign teachers who can not only raise the level for students but also inspire the local teaching staff.

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