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JohnSurrey

Low lying water - Sump Drain ?

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JohnSurrey

I watched a video by some drain experts dealing with low lying water and the basic idea was:

1) Create a sump drain

2) Install a sump pump

Pipe the water into the sump drain and then let the pump push it up to where it can drain away.

 

We have low lying water near us and I was thinking of doing something similar but I don't want to install an electric pump - I'd rather use a manual pump and have someone pump it away when it gets full...

Is this likely to work ?

Edited by JohnSurrey
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Dafey
7 hours ago, JohnSurrey said:

I'd rather use a manual pump and have someone pump it away when it gets full...

I wouldn't want to do it but absolutely it will work. you can probably get an old well pump and use that. Once you get it primed you can pump all the water you want.

However, will a hand pump keep up with the input into the low lands?

Also, you are probably talking dirty water so more wear and tear on the pump

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lopburi3

As this appears to be open dirty water would highly advise using electric type pump rated for sewage use.  This will allow leaves and such to pass and drain when needed.  We have two in use at our Bangkok home to pump from plot drains to public drains (block direct drain to prevent flooding issues).  Works well as long as electric is available (which in Bangkok is not an issue).  But even if electric is not reliable sounds as if just to get low water out so should work there.  Pumps are only a bit over $100 here - just make sure has float switch to turn on/off.

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Jawny

I had house with a basement and a sump pump was used to pump out the accumulated water.  This solved the symptom. Not the problem. The water was seeping in through the basement walls. This pressure and moisture damaged the walls. 

To eliminate the problem I removed the water before it got to the basement outside walls. I placed  a curtain drain in the path the water took. In effect, I blocked the water from getting to the house. 

I used flexible piping just for this purpose, but other pipe could have been used. The pipe was laid in a trench I dug in the water path. I covered it with soil, and out of sight, out of mind.

The trick is to have the curtain drain pipe flowto another low area. 

 

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JohnSurrey

Yes - I was thinking manual pump because 

1) Too much rain then the sump is like working overtime and liable to break

2) Often during/after rain the power is out...

3) No fighting over paying for the electricity

I think the idea is to collect the water underground using either perforated pipe and/or perforated sump drain - this should eliminate a lot of the leaves and waste and only let in the water - maybe collect a lot of dirt too ... but it may be if we collect the water in one place they can actually  use some of it to water the plants etc. when it's dry

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Jawny
2 minutes ago, JohnSurrey said:

Yes - I was thinking manual pump because 

1) Too much rain then the sump is like working overtime and liable to break

2) Often during/after rain the power is out...

3) No fighting over paying for the electricity

I think the idea is to collect the water underground using either perforated pipe and/or perforated sump drain - this should eliminate a lot of the leaves and waste and only let in the water - maybe collect a lot of dirt too ... but it may be if we collect the water in one place they can actually  use some of it to water the plants etc. when it's dry

Good points about the brown out situation.  

Have you seen or know of place to get the perforated pipe?  It should be common, but perhaps not in the provinces.  

Is there any chance the water can be redirected to a lower area?  Dig a canal of sorts?

If you're in a congested area, there’s more than leaves to be concerned with.  Many families have their piggeries and chickens with extensive waste to dispose of.  A lower area can end up becoming a collection point.  We’re outside the city, so we have all sorts of poop being disposed of by drainage.

 

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lamoe
6 minutes ago, JohnSurrey said:

Yes - I was thinking manual pump because 

1) Too much rain then the sump is like working overtime and liable to break

2) Often during/after rain the power is out...

3) No fighting over paying for the electricity

I think the idea is to collect the water underground using either perforated pipe and/or perforated sump drain - this should eliminate a lot of the leaves and waste and only let in the water - maybe collect a lot of dirt too ... but it may be if we collect the water in one place they can actually  use some of it to water the plants etc. when it's dry

My house had perforated / slotted pipe  in the back surrounded by gravel to act as a pre-filter , subdivision laid out with natural sloping drainage

 

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towboat72

Google French drain.They are easy to installed,use no electricity, and depending on location should work.

The basic idea is pipe the water off with gravity.

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JohnSurrey

Yes, yes, yes

I'd much prefer the curtain drain/ french drain solution ... it's finding a place to drain it to with gravity - it should work here - because it used to... 

Re the curtain/french drain they say better with 6 inch perforated drain pipe as will last longer ... but use gravel and permeable fabric liner - haven't seen that here 

Out of interest - is there a simple way to tell if water will drain from one spot to another - without actually digging the trench etc?

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A_Simple_Man
10 hours ago, JohnSurrey said:

Pipe the water into the sump drain and then let the pump push it up to where it can drain away.

The problem is:  Drain away where?  If pumping it onto someone else's land or into the barangay drainage ditch is someone going to be pissed at you?  Is there a porous area on your own land where you can make a dry well ?  If so then you would not need to pump the water, just make the dry well lower than the water you want to drain.

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Jawny
21 minutes ago, JohnSurrey said:

Yes, yes, yes

I'd much prefer the curtain drain/ french drain solution ... it's finding a place to drain it to with gravity - it should work here - because it used to... 

Re the curtain/french drain they say better with 6 inch perforated drain pipe as will last longer ... but use gravel and permeable fabric liner - haven't seen that here 

Out of interest - is there a simple way to tell if water will drain from one spot to another - without actually digging the trench etc?

There is a technique used to determine if a plot of land I suitable for a drainage field for a septic tank.  That might help figure out drainage patterns.  A hole is dug, maybe a meter deep as an example.  Then a simple frame is placed above the hole with a weighted rod or something to measure the water depth as it accumulates.  Then, if memory serves me, the hole is filled with water and a measurement is taken to see how far the water drops over a period of time.  Probably a YouTube video on the technique.  

This might give you an idea of where the soil is suitable for drainage.  

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Tinbum
1 hour ago, JohnSurrey said:

Re the curtain/french drain they say better with 6 inch perforated drain pipe as will last longer ... but use gravel and permeable fabric liner - haven't seen that here 

Make your own perf pipe by running a circular saw across standard piping set at a shallow depth.

As to geo-textile, i brought a bloody big roll of the stuff with me over from France. I will probably never use it so if you have a need.

I dont line the trench, rather i spiral wrap the piping to stop the sand ingress etc. Did quite a few of these in France with great results.

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lopburi3
3 hours ago, JohnSurrey said:

Out of interest - is there a simple way to tell if water will drain from one spot to another - without actually digging the trench etc?

Am sure locals are used to using water/hose level there - just get clear plastic hose and fill with water - other end will be at exactly the same elevation so if ground lower will drain.  Builders used this method before lazers took over and still works fine.  

Image result for hose water level

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JohnSurrey
1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

Am sure locals are used to using water/hose level there - just get clear plastic hose and fill with water - other end will be at exactly the same elevation so if ground lower will drain.  Builders used this method before lazers took over and still works fine.  

Image result for hose water level

Thanks - I think that's how the locals do it ... found more instructions here:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/U3160E/u3160e0a.htm#TopOfPage

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lopburi3

These should be easily available, even Lazada has, and if you set up two you might pass off as a cardio exercise machine for free pumping and helping someone keep fit.  Another option would be battery operated system with charger if electric available sometimes and housing to protect available.  Should be good options to buy used at most harbors as for your use reliability would not be the difference between life and death as it could be on a boat.  

Image result for manual bilge pump

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