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Small Pond Project Needs Liner


Grey_O_Wolf

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Grey_O_Wolf

I would like to build a small pool/pond approximately 8' long x 8' wide by 30" deep out of 3/4" plywood and using a pond liner.

This would be an above ground creation and I have all the plans completed. 

I have found all the materials I would need locally except the pond liner. It has to be at least 14' square. I would prefer to use a "one piece" liner rather than attempt to glue/join pieces together to avoid possible leakage.

If anyone knows of a possible supply of "Pond Liner" or has a spare one not in use or required, I would appreciate a response. I am in Talisay and would like to find something close to here if possible. Thanks in advance.

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what about this one 5 x 4.5 meter ?

https://www.lazada.com.ph/durable-fish-pond-liners-reinforced-hdpe-membrane-garden-pools-landscaping-size-545m-intl-55729151.html?spm=a2o4l.searchlist.list.26.2ebb66d0Eq5rd1

2914 PHP, delivered to your door at no extra cost

 

Edited by Woolf
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Grey_O_Wolf
6 minutes ago, Woolf said:

Ya, I just found that one also. The price is not bad, a bit large... np .. I would prefer to find a local supplier who would cut to size and I could see what I would be getting. Lazada seems to order the product from China with 2 weeks delivery and no warranty or refusal options.... This is at least an option, thanks.

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I have ordered multi many items from lazada also thing that came from outside PH

have had no problems what so ever

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JamesMusslewhite

   Being larger has an advantage as it allows you to cut out strips to line seems of the sides and the bottom seems and bottom corners. It also would be wise to lay down a sub-bottom layer before installing the actual liner. I have extensively worked with liners in koi ponds, waterfalls, landscape deco ponds and above-ground aquaponic systems I designed and constructed in the past. I found it prudent to always first lay down a 6-mil roll poly pre-layer and then cut the liner piece to size. Then cut your liner scraps into strips and lay these scraps on all the bottom and side edges and if possible twice in the bottom corners.

   If you calculate your total water volume (times) the weight of the water (by liter or gallon) you will realize the sheer pressure which will being imposed on the sides and bottom of the wooden pond frame. It is extremely rare and difficult to perfectly cut a liner for a rectangular shape due to overlaps and wrinkling of the liner. If you have never done one before I suggest you do two things which will make it much easier. 1. Cut the pond liner a little larger as you can do a final trim once the pond is full or water. 2.) Add your water slowly into the pond at first only an inch water depth. This will allow you to easily pull out any wrinkling on the liner bottom and properly tuck and fold your corners before you continue filling the pond. I find it produces a far better end-product if you take the time to tuck the side flaps under the side edges instead of the over the side edge. This gives a crisp clean look ro the corner sides of the liner as well as helping to avoid possible unnecessary and unsightly pockets were dirt and debris can collect. It gives you a crisper more sleek look at all four corners and will also makes the pond much easier to clean.

   You can use standard painter's 6-mil roll poly sheets as a pre-liner which can be stapled or tacked to properly mound the 6-poly to to the inside of the pond frame. Then lay down your final pond liner over this friction protecting pre-liner as it will make molding the final pond liner much easier. Remember to always measure twice before you cut first as you can not uncut a pond liner. :biggrin_01:

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Enuff

I'm part owner in a fish pond business

I wish my partner was still around to help with this matter 

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JohnSurrey
On 04/01/2018 at 12:09 PM, Grey_O_Wolf said:

I would like to build a small pool/pond approximately 8' long x 8' wide by 30" deep out of 3/4" plywood and using a pond liner.

This would be an above ground creation and I have all the plans completed. 

I have found all the materials I would need locally except the pond liner. It has to be at least 14' square. I would prefer to use a "one piece" liner rather than attempt to glue/join pieces together to avoid possible leakage.

If anyone knows of a possible supply of "Pond Liner" or has a spare one not in use or required, I would appreciate a response. I am in Talisay and would like to find something close to here if possible. Thanks in advance.

As James says above - lot of pressure on your ply - I don't know how long 3/4 (or 5/8 as I seem to get) will last in your environment... see quite a few people use concrete and tiles - like a swimming pool.

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JamesMusslewhite
1 hour ago, JohnSurrey said:

As James says above - lot of pressure on your ply - I don't know how long 3/4 (or 5/8 as I seem to get) will last in your environment... see quite a few people use concrete and tiles - like a swimming pool.

5/8 inch is slightly thinner and less rigid than 3/8 inch plywood. Of course using marine plywood is best but a sheet of plywood is only as good as the wood, the number of layers and the quality of the bonding agents (glues) in which it is constructed. The better the quality, the longer it will last against the elements. I would still apply several thick coats of a quality marine grade epoxy on all inside and outside surfaces of the plywood frame. This epoxy can be purchased in clear or color pigmented in a variety of colors. I purchased quite a bit recently on a resent boat build. A gallon (plus can of hardener) costs approximately 1,200php at City Hardware and one to two cans should do the trick.    

   The pond the OP describes will a be containing a total water volume of 600 gallons (2271.25 litres) at a total water volume weight of 5,000 pounds (2272.73 kilos).  With side lengths of eight foot the tensile strength will eventually cause major bowing and or possible corner collapse. The frame will need additional bracing to the center of the pond sides and cross bracing to the corners, even if one was using heavier 1 inch plywood. I personally would use 1'inch plywood. It is too bad that the OP does not include a diagram of the pond showing the construction of the frame. Two tons of water being contained by a 2.5 foot high wall of 3/8 inch plywood will require some serious bracing in the centers and corners of the containment walls.

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Davaoeno
16 hours ago, Enuff said:

I'm part owner in a fish pond business

I wish my partner was still around to help with this matter 

His " partnership" with you ended the moment you gave him the money !!  

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SkyMan

Since you're doing it in 3/4 ply, you might consider lining the plywood with fiberglass.  That would free you from worries about tearing the liner.  Plenty of fiberglass shops around, follow your nose.  You can probably hire someone to come install it on site cheap enough.

Edited by SkyMan
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Grey_O_Wolf
21 hours ago, JohnSurrey said:

As James says above - lot of pressure on your ply - I don't know how long 3/4 (or 5/8 as I seem to get) will last in your environment... see quite a few people use concrete and tiles - like a swimming pool.

I have managed to find true 3/4" Plywood rated as Marine. It is, however NOT true "Western Style" Marine plywood in that it does contain air gaps in the ply. It is a 5 ply Plus two veneer coats and is only P 1050. Also the supply is within a couple hundred yards of my location. This pool/pond will be outdoor, on a concrete slab and is being built to consider possible future re-location if necessary. (It can be disassembled easily) Concrete would unfortunately not work in this situation.

As for the pressure, I have built several similar pond/pools back in Canada and used 2.4's as supports and did notice some bowing. In this case, I will be using the 3/4 plywood to create at least a top and bottom surround that will be 6" wide and 1 1/2" thick (2 x 3/4" ply). I may build a middle surround as well. If anyone is interested, I do have a very crude partial drawing to show the concept but not the details. I may be persuaded to provide a series of photos as I build it, when it starts.

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JamesMusslewhite
9 minutes ago, Grey_O_Wolf said:

I have managed to find true 3/4" Plywood rated as Marine. It is, however NOT true "Western Style" Marine plywood in that it does contain air gaps in the ply. It is a 5 ply Plus two veneer coats and is only P 1050. Also the supply is within a couple hundred yards of my location. This pool/pond will be outdoor, on a concrete slab and is being built to consider possible future re-location if necessary. (It can be disassembled easily) Concrete would unfortunately not work in this situation.

As for the pressure, I have built several similar pond/pools back in Canada and used 2.4's as supports and did notice some bowing. In this case, I will be using the 3/4 plywood to create at least a top and bottom surround that will be 6" wide and 1 1/2" thick (2 x 3/4" ply). I may build a middle surround as well. If anyone is interested, I do have a very crude partial drawing to show the concept but not the details. I may be persuaded to provide a series of photos as I build it, when it starts.

That should do the trick.

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Grey_O_Wolf
On 1/4/2018 at 8:34 PM, JamesMusslewhite said:

   Being larger has an advantage as it allows you to cut out strips to line seems of the sides and the bottom seems and bottom corners. It also would be wise to lay down a sub-bottom layer before installing the actual liner. I have extensively worked with liners in koi ponds, waterfalls, landscape deco ponds and above-ground aquaponic systems I designed and constructed in the past. I found it prudent to always first lay down a 6-mil roll poly pre-layer and then cut the liner piece to size. Then cut your liner scraps into strips and lay these scraps on all the bottom and side edges and if possible twice in the bottom corners.

   If you calculate your total water volume (times) the weight of the water (by liter or gallon) you will realize the sheer pressure which will being imposed on the sides and bottom of the wooden pond frame. It is extremely rare and difficult to perfectly cut a liner for a rectangular shape due to overlaps and wrinkling of the liner. If you have never done one before I suggest you do two things which will make it much easier. 1. Cut the pond liner a little larger as you can do a final trim once the pond is full or water. 2.) Add your water slowly into the pond at first only an inch water depth. This will allow you to easily pull out any wrinkling on the liner bottom and properly tuck and fold your corners before you continue filling the pond. I find it produces a far better end-product if you take the time to tuck the side flaps under the side edges instead of the over the side edge. This gives a crisp clean look ro the corner sides of the liner as well as helping to avoid possible unnecessary and unsightly pockets were dirt and debris can collect. It gives you a crisper more sleek look at all four corners and will also makes the pond much easier to clean.

   You can use standard painter's 6-mil roll poly sheets as a pre-liner which can be stapled or tacked to properly mound the 6-poly to to the inside of the pond frame. Then lay down your final pond liner over this friction protecting pre-liner as it will make molding the final pond liner much easier. Remember to always measure twice before you cut first as you can not uncut a pond liner. :biggrin_01:

Those are very good tips and I thank you for them. I believe I have allowed for sufficient protection of the liner in that the corners will be pretty rigid, the support frame will be primarily bolted together and it will rest on a relatively uniform concrete slab. This will not be the first pond/pool I have built in this manner, but sort of an evolution. Its design is simple, cheap, portable and should be sturdy. Total cost is expected to come in under P 10K.

That is NOT including the pump filtration system I am also working on. ;-)

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Grey_O_Wolf
14 hours ago, SkyMan said:

Since you're doing it in 3/4 ply, you might consider lining the plywood with fiberglass.  That would free you from worries about tearing the liner.  Plenty of fiberglass shops around, follow your nose.  You can probably hire someone to come install it on site cheap enough.

My 'self-design/build' concept here is "cheap, strong and portable'.

My concept was to either fiberglass/epoxy it OR use a liner, not both. Using a liner retains the 'portability' concept. 

I have considered fiberglass/epoxy options and still have not eliminated them, however. Since this will be a portable installation, weight is also a consideration. I also intend to self-build this in less than a day once all my materials are gathered.

Edited by Grey_O_Wolf
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