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michael52

im goin with silver rounds. old morgan and liberty dollars, walking liberty halves and mercury head dimes. good commodity for barter action. if gold hits 2000 an ounce silver will follow suit. easier to barter with silver than an ounce of gold worth 2 grand. i remember when silver hit 40 an ounce and more...i may not have much now, but for a few days there, i was squating in high cotton. my two cents worth.

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Unless goverments around the world decide to trade in a currency other then the dollar nothing is going to change. Thus is the reality.

I heard that the reason Bush went to war with Saddam was because he was going to start using Euros instead of Dollars. Okay I heard this at a kids party but it was by one of the parents.

Edited by Earl
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The dollar will not sink to all times lows. However it may go down against a lot of currencies. Seeing the peso at 39 or Euro at 155 is not going to happen in a year. The dollar does not have a replacement. There lies the million dollar question. Unless goverments around the world decide to trade in a currency other then the dollar nothing is going to change. Thus is the reality.

 

Bob Ward brought up an interesting point of the Amero. The Amero is not a reality. Yet the US is considering (under cloak) removing the Dollar from circulation. They are going to insert a new form of US currency. (maybe still called the dollar). One economist was quoted as stating if the US were to phase the current dollar out over 1 year with diminishing returns to zero and Phase in a new it would eliminate 1/3 to 1/2 of the US debt. Thus still keeping the dollar (or new currency name) as the premier world currency. Interesting none the less.

 

The Amero is just a theory to confuse people.

 

What is really happening right now is the big guys let the dollar live until they got rid of all of it and then they will dump it. Just wait.

 

.

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Ok, so who is going to pick up the tab for remaining 1/2 to 2/3 of US Debt? It won't magically disappear simply by replacing the currency, someone will have to pay.

Cambodians use the dollar. Why don't the Khmer's chip in and help? This is no time to be selfish.

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Markham
Cambodians use the dollar. Why don't the Khmer's chip in and help? This is no time to be selfish.

I take it that is not a serious suggestion. But I do take exception to your third sentence from which I infer that you believe the world should bail America out of her present problems.

 

At the risk of possibly upsetting you and a few other Americans, let me give you the impression I have as a Brit. The last US Administration created a climate of encouraging personal debt and advancing home ownership loans and mortgages to people barely able to afford them. So freely was the money running out of the big banks and institutional lenders such as Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae that they had to seek help from overseas banks who, rather foolishly it must be said, advanced huge loans. Of course, that bubble burst in 2007 and the British Bank Northern Rock became the first casualty. As British Banks can not fail, the British Government was forced to act.

 

At the same time, several other European banks which also invested in the US suddenly found themselves holding toxic debts: this spelt trouble for a number of institutional investors in the UK when an Icelandic Bank collapsed. In 2008 the Royal Bank of Scotland took-over the Dutch bank ABN-Amro, a double-whammy as both banks also found themselves holding toxic debts resulting out of loans to American financial institutions. The story is repeated with HBOS (the new bank created out of the merger of Halifax with the Bank of Scotland) and with Lloyds with whom it has recently merged, and with Barclays Bank though its exposure is somewhat less. The four banking groups - Northern Rock, Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds and Barclays are in a state of economic nationalisation with the tax-payer picking-up the tab which equates to roughly ten thousand pounds for every man, woman and child in the country. It's not just British banks that were involved with this investment "opportunity" in the US, hundreds of banks around the world are now in trouble to a greater or lesser extent.

 

This crisis has caused the world's banks to lose confidence and so won't lend to each other. It's a crisis that, with proper economic and fiscal management, could have been avoided.

 

Can you advance any good reason why my 18 year-old daughter, who recently became a tax-payer, or my 83 year old aunt, a tax-paying pensioner, should repay debts incurred thousands of miles away to the west - because that is exactly what they have to do!

Edited by Markham
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USMC-Retired
I take it that is not a serious suggestion. But I do take exception to your third sentence from which I infer that you believe the world should bail America out of her present problems.

 

At the risk of possibly upsetting you and a few other Americans, let me give you the impression I have as a Brit. The last US Administration created a climate of encouraging personal debt and advancing home ownership loans and mortgages to people barely able to afford them. So freely was the money running out of the big banks and institutional lenders such as Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae that they had to seek help from overseas banks who, rather foolishly it must be said, advanced huge loans. Of course, that bubble burst in 2007 and the British Bank Northern Rock became the first casualty. As British Banks can not fail, the British Government was forced to act.

 

At the same time, several other European banks which also invested in the US suddenly found themselves holding toxic debts: this spelt trouble for a number of institutional investors in the UK when an Icelandic Bank collapsed. In 2008 the Royal Bank of Scotland took-over the Dutch bank ABN-Amro, a double-whammy as both banks also found themselves holding toxic debts resulting out of loans to American financial institutions. The story is repeated with HBOS (the new bank created out of the merger of Halifax with the Bank of Scotland) and with Lloyds with whom it has recently merged, and with Barclays Bank though its exposure is somewhat less. The four banking groups - Northern Rock, Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds and Barclays are in a state of economic nationalisation with the tax-payer picking-up the tab which equates to roughly ten thousand pounds for every man, woman and child in the country. It's not just British banks that were involved with this investment "opportunity" in the US, hundreds of banks around the world are now in trouble to a greater or lesser extent.

 

This crisis has caused the world's banks to lose confidence and so won't lend to each other. It's a crisis that, with proper economic and fiscal management, could have been avoided.

 

Can you advance any good reason why my 18 year-old daughter, who recently became a tax-payer, or my 83 year old aunt, a tax-paying pensioner, should repay debts incurred thousands of miles away to the west - because that is exactly what they have to do!

 

 

No one held a gun to their heads and told them to invest in the US. Sorry to be so cynical however they took a risk on the US goverment. If that risk did not work in your favor then it is what is. If the risk had worked in your favor nothing would be said. As with all investments it has risks. You can blame the US it is your right however you should look closer to home and ask why did they take these risks.

 

As for the dollar. The reduction of the debt through change of currency is simple. How much illegal money or money not appropriated by legal international law is out there?

There would be no affect to the average person unless Grandma buried money in the back yard.

 

It is a consideration that will happen. The Amero was just a ruse that is being used. However watch and see.

 

Earl you are partly correct. In 1990 Saddam said he was going to start trading oil in Euro. This was a well known statement. However before the US could do anything he decided to invade Kuwait over a land and mineral right dispute. Thus the US avoided the possibility.

Edited by USMC-Retired
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Markham
No one held a gun to their heads and told them to invest in the US. Sorry to be so cynical however they took a risk on the US goverment. If that risk did not work in your favor then it is what is. If the risk had worked in your favor nothing would be said. As with all investments it has risks. You can blame the US it is your right however you should look closer to home and ask why did they take these risks.

 

As for the dollar. The reduction of the debt through change of currency is simple. How much illegal money or money not appropriated by legal international law is out there?

There would be no affect to the average person unless Grandma buried money in the back yard.

 

It is a consideration that will happen. The Amero was just a ruse that is being used. However watch and see.

 

Earl you are partly correct. In 1990 Saddam said he was going to start trading oil in Euro. This was a well known statement. However before the US could do anything he decided to invade Kuwait over a land and mineral right dispute. Thus the US avoided the possibility.

I agree, Tim, British and other countries' bankers did take a risk, there's no denying that and, in retrospect, it was an unacceptable risk. The fact remains that confidence in US financial institutions to meet their obligations has largely disappeared. A change of currency, Amero-like, might solve a short-term problem within the US but it won't magically improve outside confidence in her financial institutions and will be seen as a "smoke and mirrors" exercise.

 

You mentioned Saddam seeking to trade oil in Euros prior to his invasion of Kuwait and Gulf War 1 - which is true. But he wasn't alone and indeed OPEC is considering a change of currency - spurred-on by the current crisis. Commodities, such as oil, are traded in US Dollars because the American economy was the largest in the world. But she is no longer in such a position having been overtaken by China and I would not be at all surprised if, within the next 10 years, all commodities are traded in Yuan. A Chinese company is currently seeking to become the largest single share-holder in the mining company RTZ, how long before it has a controlling interest?

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USMC-Retired
I agree, Tim, British and other countries' bankers did take a risk, there's no denying that and, in retrospect, it was an unacceptable risk. The fact remains that confidence in US financial institutions to meet their obligations has largely disappeared. A change of currency, Amero-like, might solve a short-term problem within the US but it won't magically improve outside confidence in her financial institutions and will be seen as a "smoke and mirrors" exercise.

 

You mentioned Saddam seeking to trade oil in Euros prior to his invasion of Kuwait and Gulf War 1 - which is true. But he wasn't alone and indeed OPEC is considering a change of currency - spurred-on by the current crisis. Commodities, such as oil, are traded in US Dollars because the American economy was the largest in the world. But she is no longer in such a position having been overtaken by China and I would not be at all surprised if, within the next 10 years, all commodities are traded in Yuan. A Chinese company is currently seeking to become the largest single share-holder in the mining company RTZ, how long before it has a controlling interest?

 

 

The current rate of growth of China continues yes you will see a shift to Yuan (RMB). As it stands the US imports 3 times what China imports in oil. However the gap of importation is closing fast. Everything is based on global importation. So until the US is passed in importation then it will still be traded in dollar.

 

As for the largest economy. According to the IMF China will surpass the US in 18 years if the current rate of growth continues. Currently the US has 14.7 trillion dollars China is 4.8 trillion dollars. The EU if joined as one union is the largest at 15.1 trillion dollars. (though however many experts break this down).

 

However the world is skeptical of the Euro because the monetary fund is fragile depending on each country. Thus one country could upset the turnip truck. So after we recover from the depression and move forward you may see a shift in the way commodities are traded on the open market. I really would not be shocked as so many countries banking systems are destroyed by the global melt down. If that were to happen then a real push to eliminate the dollar would start and thus alleviating debt.

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eggnoggin

Currency will soon become interactive... the things you normally purchase on a daily basis will become a commodities account traded through a new type of bank that links individual accounts for trading on a real time basis... voluntary and partial participation for a generation or so.. its not much different than the current system...just eliminate middle management and waste .will.help balance flux.. a huge "knitted" monster" <_<

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Markham
However the world is skeptical of the Euro because the monetary fund is fragile depending on each country. Thus one country could upset the turnip truck.

Not really true. The Euro is neither managed nor its value dependent on any one country in the Euro Zone. Its value reflects the relative strength - or weakness - of the combined economies of all the Euro Zone countries. However not all EU member states' currency is the Euro. Britain, for example, won't even consider joining the Euro until "conditions are favourable" which, among others, would mean that the Common Agriculture Policy would need to be scrapped - and that's never going to happen as France, Spain and Italy are the principal beneficiaries. (The Euro was conceived by the French who needed to underpin France's hugely expensive state-funded health, pension and welfare schemes.)

 

 

Mark

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bouncing55

cant find parking in the mall, waiting more then an hour to eat at olive garden, waiting for over an hour to play poker (all of the 500 seats are full), $10 to cross the verezano bridge traffic standing still, people who werent fired spend money like its water, the american consumer is dumb just like me, until it hits you, people dont change their routines, even in a depression.

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RickandSue
<_<

 

wonder what would happen if the media started to spread some good news. lets say the financial pages had a few success stories as headlines. or some upbeat television programming about a local successful business.

 

wouldn't it be interesting to see how a positive spin might affect people.

 

don't get me wrong. i know there is downsizing, layoffs, unemployment etc etc etc...

but i think a lot of things have to do with the medias constant display of all things tragic.

 

by refocusing the nature of the messages of every (or maybe even a few of the) blinking bleeping bits of media imput we might just change some of the overall mood. the wall street powers that be might even be a bit elated by the change.

 

 

what do you think?

 

Rick and I agree with you 100% -- we've been saying virtually the same thing lately... the media needs to stop "feeding the frenzy" and discouraging people from even TRYING...

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You might be right we are overdue for a bear market rally.

 

I gave some thought to that idea of a bear market rally.

 

I am wondering why you are bearish after the DOW Jones lost 55 % of it's value, other indices and sectors actually look quite bullish and many emerging markets (China, Brazil) are already rallying like crazy.

 

I stick to my statement I made last Friday, even more, I say this is an excellent buying opportunity which won't come very often. We may see some kind of retest over the next weeks or so but if you want to buy into the US or European stock market, now is the time.

 

.

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I take it that is not a serious suggestion. But I do take exception to your third sentence from which I infer that you believe the world should bail America out of her present problems.

 

At the risk of possibly upsetting you and a few other Americans, let me give you the impression I have as a Brit. The last US Administration created a climate of encouraging personal debt and advancing home ownership loans and mortgages to people barely able to afford them. So freely was the money running out of the big banks and institutional lenders such as Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae that they had to seek help from overseas banks who, rather foolishly it must be said, advanced huge loans. Of course, that bubble burst in 2007 and the British Bank Northern Rock became the first casualty. As British Banks can not fail, the British Government was forced to act.

 

At the same time, several other European banks which also invested in the US suddenly found themselves holding toxic debts: this spelt trouble for a number of institutional investors in the UK when an Icelandic Bank collapsed. In 2008 the Royal Bank of Scotland took-over the Dutch bank ABN-Amro, a double-whammy as both banks also found themselves holding toxic debts resulting out of loans to American financial institutions. The story is repeated with HBOS (the new bank created out of the merger of Halifax with the Bank of Scotland) and with Lloyds with whom it has recently merged, and with Barclays Bank though its exposure is somewhat less. The four banking groups - Northern Rock, Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds and Barclays are in a state of economic nationalisation with the tax-payer picking-up the tab which equates to roughly ten thousand pounds for every man, woman and child in the country. It's not just British banks that were involved with this investment "opportunity" in the US, hundreds of banks around the world are now in trouble to a greater or lesser extent.

 

This crisis has caused the world's banks to lose confidence and so won't lend to each other. It's a crisis that, with proper economic and fiscal management, could have been avoided.

 

Can you advance any good reason why my 18 year-old daughter, who recently became a tax-payer, or my 83 year old aunt, a tax-paying pensioner, should repay debts incurred thousands of miles away to the west - because that is exactly what they have to do!

 

Hmm, not sure I agree with this, not because I know better for sure, but simply because this is the first time I have heard the problem stated like this.

 

Are you saying that Nothern Rock went bankrupt because that lent too much money to Freddie and Fanny who did not pay it back? I thought Northern Rock went bankrupt becuase people stopped lending it money when it had to rollover loans.

 

(For example say it owed

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Can you advance any good reason why my 18 year-old daughter, who recently became a tax-payer, or my 83 year old aunt, a tax-paying pensioner, should repay debts incurred thousands of miles away to the west - because that is exactly what they have to do!

 

Yes I am afraid that there is a very simple answer to this.

 

It is because the democratically elected British Government has decided that it should be like this.

 

They did have the option of letting HBOS, RBS etc go bust, and letting them default on its debts.

 

However they probably decided the systemic risk was so great it was cheaper to rescue the bank.

 

This of course is assuming that your original premise (that British banks went bust because American banks defaulted) is correct. And this I have just strongly disputed because it is incorrect.

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