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Comparing Philippine's Education to Other Countries

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3 hours ago, Bob in Iligan said:

It is painful, when you love the country, to look at hard realities.

I think the state of the law is in conjunction with the state of education.   If you had people up to snuff with, say, Singapore - the general populace is educated enough to understand principles of governance and law.

Before Yew, Singapore was behind the Philippines in education, income, civil service effectiveness...  and in a couple of generations they are top of the world in academic tests.   #1 world  IQ at 108.   One of the top per capita incomes in the world.  

And the legal system is functional, with no massive overcrowding in the prisons.  They're a little harsh too on drugs, but they give you a trial before execution.  

If your people are wealthy, they can afford a quality legal system.   Yew did that for Singapore.  I wish for the Philippines that Duterte can be our Yew.  

On the surface, the Philippines seems like the most over-educated place on Earth. Many cashier here have four-year accounting degrees ... because there aren't enough accounting jobs for the available graduates. You find similar situations in other fields as well. However, the is just the surface. The reality is that an education in the Philippines is not equivalent to an education in other countries. They have changed the primary/secondary education from ten years to twelve years, so that might help a bit (since the last two years of high school will no longer have to be covered in college), but the fact is that most learning here is by rote (even in college), so students graduate still not knowing how to do anything but do what they are told. Students are never taught how to think, work and make decisions for themselves. This comes out in every facet of life here. People learn from their co-workers how to do their jobs (by copying them). Even when people get promoted or take over top spots, they are still looking for examples of how they should do their jobs, and since their is so much corruption in this country, they learn to be corrupt as well.

Duterte isn't Yew, and the Philippines' government is structured totally different that that of Singapore, so it is less conducive to change. Also, Singapore is a small city-state whereas the Philippines is a large, complex country with over a hundred million people. It isn't reasonable to expect Duterte to accomplish here what Yew accomplished in Singapore. He doesn't have that much time. But he is trying his level best to change things with the time he has.

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lamoe

" Students are never taught how to think, work and make decisions for themselves "

Very, very  true

Prime example is making change in a store or price after discount.

Tata is college educated, computer science,  but still get

"love, 1 - 3  (1,300 P) 40% discount, how much?"

At first I'd say 520 without even thinking about it. Now know she wants the final price.

She asked how I do it - told her I was born before calculators (true) when we had to learn to do it in your head.

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Bob in Iligan
Posted (edited)

I am most depressed about education in the Philippines.  I'm a retired professor.   I am homeschooling two kids, the second grader reads at the college level and does algebra.   The first grader reads at 9th grade level and is in 4th grade math.   We put our whole lives into these kids, their education.   Both of us.  They do music and MMA too.  We choose what we do for socialization, the school is the last place we would ever send them for socialization.   They socialized with a beehive of Filipinos four months this year.  In Iligan City.  We homeschooled there too.  

I had to consider education for my wife and her siblings, our own children, our extended family.   It's bleak.   I would say the educational system is doing exactly what it was designed to do: create mindless automatons, to never ask questions, to accept arbitrary authority, to be gullible and stupid, frankly.  Insofar as the state system is concerned.  

I studied the exam scores coming out of the various high schools test scores like the SASE on Mindanao.  Some high schools are putting out zero students making that cut-off score and for others, half the graduating class does.   It is extreme difference across schools.   Obviously the elite private schools are generally the best but it isn't always true and I know why but don't want to broach the subject yet.   There are some parochial schools that do really well.   But the public schools in the poor areas, nobody even comes close to passing the SASE cut-off score.  

The average IQ in the Philippines is 85.   That is one full standard deviation below the USA.   I think we have to acknowledge the genetics of intelligence.   But it is not all genetic and again look at Singapore with IQ 108.   They worked their way up there through a conscious national zealotry over education.  They are not that genetically distinct from Filipinos.   Look all over SE Asia and you see high IQ's.  Filipinos are really under-performing relative to their genetic potential, it seems to me.  Our kids are off the charts because we are like Singapore.   Working our asses off.  

The teachers come from the lowest professional cohort, they can't afford to pay what an engineer or business school graduate is paid.  The schools of education are filled with "paper mills" that don't actually have classes or do superfluous busywork they've just made up.   Really fly-by-night organizations, nobody can pass the qualifying professional exam but the schools have to hire them anyway because that is all they have to hire.  It is a terrible mess.

I can only say that as a parent you have to do it yourself.   Even the best private schools, they don't have a chance against committed parents.  

But if the topic is comparing Singapore to Philippines, then one thing is very clear:  Yew in Singapore galvanized the nation to first become self-aware at their performance in all areas of economics, education, and etc. compared to other countries.   They dared to beat everyone else through a conscious national effort.  They looked at what other countries were doing.   What worked and what didn't.

I really dislike the "Filipino Pride" mentality in it's belief of entitlement.  It's ignorance of performance against other countries.   You have to earn pride, and it comes from doing things better than others, not from just being born somewhere.  

The Filipinos do not participate in international testing.   I guess they'll just be proud of themselves without seeing how they look in math, reading, and writing.   

Humility and hard work would serve them better as a national motto.  And that filters right down through all the schools, who in Singapore are filled with the competitive spirit of being #1 on the PISA tests.   Filipinos don't even take it, and that's what's wrong.   I go so far as to call it stupid pride.   I do not mean that as a put-down but as constructive criticism.  

Edited by Bob in Iligan
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HTM
12 minutes ago, Bob in Iligan said:

I am homeschooling two kids, the second grader reads at the college level and does algebra.   The first grader reads at 9th grade level and is in 4th grade math.   We put our whole lives into these kids, their education.

And I bet they study for the knowledge, not only for the test like her!
Her the kids don't need to remember what they learn if it already had a test about it. "I don't remember, that was last semester". 

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lamoe
3 hours ago, HTM said:

. "I don't remember, that was last semester". 

Successful systems stress understanding over learning.

Understanding why something happens vs learning that it happens

Oil and water don't mix  - why?

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Jester

I love these comparisons,  if the P's were like Singapore an average apartment no where near a city center would cost 120,634 peso and the drop down fare for the first kilometer is 152 Philippine peso. Now the important things for many a bottle of beer would be OMG $8.37 (US) 440 Philippine peso in a bar making Singapore 6th most expensive beer in the world.

So if Duterte starts on that path, many will have to start packing. 

It is nice to muse about what should or could be,   as the quality of life goes up so does the price!

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Richard K
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, lamoe said:

Successful systems stress understanding over learning.

Understanding why something happens vs learning that it happens

Oil and water don't mix  - why?

"Understanding why something happens" is subjective.(at least sociatally)
Facts are not (historical data.."this happened this date and time").. science is not (repeatable proven results given the same criteria)... mathematics are not.. (Um..duh)
I do not care what country or what background.. if over-all access to knowledge is available then there will be those that will take advantage of that and excel... and there will be those that will reject that.. and do SOMETHING to live.. or live off the "dole"...or?... do vulcanizing.. or what have you
There are those here on this site that "degrade" institutional education, particularly American college education ...like it is some kind of "indoctrination" ...these are obviously people that have never attended any institutions of higher learning...beyond specific one time things.
A narrow road is comforting...
By the way... oil and water CAN actually mix.. it does all the time... you just can't expect it to be the way you want it to be


 

Edited by Richard K
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HTM
9 hours ago, lamoe said:

told her I was born before calculators (true)

The electronic calculator(1960), or the Mechanical calculator (1620)?

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lamoe
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, HTM said:

The electronic calculator(1960), or the Mechanical calculator (1620)?

Sometimes feels like both:oldtimer:

Edited by lamoe
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Dafey
19 hours ago, lamoe said:

told her I was born before calculators

Naaahhh...you're not that old!

The abacus was developed not far from here and is still a great calculator today.

Image result for abacus

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Kabisay-an gid
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, HTM said:

The electronic calculator(1960), or the Mechanical calculator (1620)?

.

Edited by Kabisay-an gid

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Kabisay-an gid
10 hours ago, Jester said:

I love these comparisons,  if the P's were like Singapore an average apartment no where near a city center would cost 120,634 peso and the drop down fare for the first kilometer is 152 Philippine peso. Now the important things for many a bottle of beer would be OMG $8.37 (US) 440 Philippine peso in a bar making Singapore 6th most expensive beer in the world.

So if Duterte starts on that path, many will have to start packing. 

It is nice to muse about what should or could be,   as the quality of life goes up so does the price!

 

Not to mention that the Philippines is a nation state of 100 million plus people, whereas Singapore is a city state of only about 6 million. Singapore is smaller than many cities in Asia.

Not a fair or relevant comparison, due to the enormous size difference.

 

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lamoe
1 hour ago, Dafey said:

Naaahhh...you're not that old!

The abacus was developed not far from here and is still a great calculator today.

Image result for abacus

Learned how to use one when in high school after seeing friend fly through problems.

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Irenicus

I interviewed nine college kids for an article not too long ago.  They were attending a prestigious local university that the US allows credit transfers from. All the students were foreigners (mostly American) and all said the same thing:  They love living here but the college system is like being back in high school - or junior high school.

They also loved the $1,200 a year tuition - as did their parents.

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PhilsFan

A child's education is mostly determined the way it always has...by the parents. If parents make education a priority and put in the effort the children will likely do just fine in academics or working world. The internet has most every resource needed to properly educate a child, those who can not afford or acquire a stable connection are the exception to this of course..and that is definitely a problem here in the Phils as is a lack of curiosity about the world perhaps due to Teaching to the test and not for understanding.

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