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Duterte: "Do not buy anymore from Canada or from the United States because there is always a condition attached."

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SkyMan

"Do not buy anymore from Canada or from the United States because there is always a condition attached."

Well, buying from China also comes with a condition, poor condition.

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lamoe
On 4/14/2018 at 8:11 PM, Oz Jon said:

No!  The only way to fix the drug problem is to "kill the market" - ie. make it unprofitable to sell/promote drugs.

Where there is demand, someone (criminals) will try to satisfy it for a profit. So give the stuff to addicts for free in a controlled fashion........ no profit = no market = no promotion

No other "solution" has ever worked (even after very expensive decades of trials) and never will.

Kill (murder) some  drug dealers and and a new crop will spring up because the demand remains and there is plenty of profit to pay the new crop.

Legalizing drugs,  up to and including Meth, Heroin, etc., will eliminate the middleman (drug dealers) BUT

Please explain how making drugs more readily  / legally available  will reduce drug usage?

The problem  is not the dealers but the users who support the dealers.

Dealers don't make people use their product do they?

"Where there is demand, someone (criminals) will try to satisfy it for a profit. So give the stuff to addicts for free in a controlled fashion........ no profit = no market = no promotion"

And when the users want more than they can get legally guess who they will get it from?

Consider state run brothels - as in Germany - do they eliminate prostitutes / pimps? NO - nor do they reduce the demand for sex. I admit somewhat skewed analogy but the principle is the same.

 

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max111
26 minutes ago, lamoe said:

Dealers don't make people use their product do they?

Of course they do!  Who introduce the product?

 

26 minutes ago, lamoe said:

Consider state run brothels - as in Germany -

There are state run brothels in Germany?

 

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lamoe
8 hours ago, max111 said:

Of course they do!  Who introduce the product?

 

There are state run brothels in Germany?

 

Drugs are centuries old -  mushrooms, frogs, etc. The dealers meet demand  not create it.

Consider home grown pot, and garage meth labs using Google as a guide. Make more than you can use? SELL IT! = dealer?

State run was a misnomer by me - state sanctioned and controlled -  the size of the city determines the number allowed I was told.

The small town where my employer was located employed more men than the local pop could supply - so an abundance of men without partners - large dormatory's - the company , while not officially involved, did keep very close tabs on the "house" located just outside it's gates.

In fact

Quote

 

" Bestiality brothels are spreading through Germany faster than ever thanks to a law that makes animal p*orn illegal but sex with animals legal, a livestock protection officer has warned.

 

Q
 

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Oz Jon
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, lamoe said:

Legalizing drugs,  up to and including Meth, Heroin, etc., will eliminate the middleman (drug dealers) BUT

Please explain how making drugs more readily  / legally available  will reduce drug usage?

The problem  is not the dealers but the users who support the dealers.

Dealers don't make people use their product do they?

"Where there is demand, someone (criminals) will try to satisfy it for a profit. So give the stuff to addicts for free in a controlled fashion........ no profit = no market = no promotion"

 

Consider state run brothels - as in Germany - do they eliminate prostitutes / pimps? NO - nor do they reduce the demand for sex. I admit somewhat skewed analogy but the principle is the same.

 

Has Germany "killed the sex market" by providing free sex? Every day I learn something new!........................

What do you regard as "the drug problem"?

If you think that eliminating all demand for drugs is what it's all about - then you have no hope of a solution by any method.(except for your earlier proposal of killing anyone remotely connected to or even thought by some very wise person to be connected to drugs). I and probably others have ethical problems with mass-murder solutions. There is no evidence that this would work anyway, without massive population murder. And if there is new unsatisfied, demand,  profitable trade will pop-up again.

Eliminating drug demand in the short-term is well nigh impossible - there are many addicts and this stuff is very addictive!

What you can do though, is stop it's profitable supply and promotion by criminals. With time, demand will slowly die off as addicts die off and are not replaced. Without promotion, drugs are not an attractive option.

Meantime, with my proposal, drug supply is controllable! ....The supply of money for corruption, incarceration for minor offences, death from overdoses, health problems from lack of quality control are all eliminated or at least made manageable.

And no other proposed/trialed solution has ever done any better!

Nations (under enormous US pressure) have been flogging this prohibition "dead-horse" for far too long - face it! -  it hasn't worked in a 50 year, $?B's cost! trial - it just doesn't work!

ps.

You asked "And when the users want more than they can get legally guess who they will get it from?"  ... I propose that they can get as much as they want/need legally under suitably controlled conditions. The more they use, the sooner they die off!

Meantime, there are no other suppliers because there is no profit to be made and the supplier penalties are unattractively severe!

 

Edited by Oz Jon
typos (see edit history)
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lamoe
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Oz Jon said:

Has Germany "killed the sex market" by providing free sex? Every day I learn something new!........................

What do you regard as "the drug problem"?

If you think that eliminating all demand for drugs is what it's all about - then you have no hope of a solution by any method.(except for your earlier proposal of killing anyone remotely connected to or even thought by some very wise person to be connected to drugs). I and probably others have ethical problems with mass-murder solutions. There is no evidence that this would work anyway, without massive population murder. And if there is new unsatisfied, demand,  profitable trade will pop-up again.

Eliminating drug demand in the short-term is well nigh impossible - there are many addicts and this stuff is very addictive!

What you can do though, is stop it's profitable supply and promotion by criminals. With time, demand will slowly die off as addicts die off and are not replaced. Without promotion, drugs are not an attractive option.

Meantime, with my proposal, drug supply is controllable! ....The supply of money for corruption, incarceration for minor offences, death from overdoses, health problems from lack of quality control are all eliminated or at least made manageable.

And no other proposed/trialed solution has ever done any better!

Nations (under enormous US pressure) have been flogging this prohibition "dead-horse" for far too long - face it! -  it hasn't worked in a 50 year, $?B's cost! trial - it just doesn't work!

ps.

You asked "And when the users want more than they can get legally guess who they will get it from?"  ... I propose that they can get as much as they want/need legally under suitably controlled conditions. The more they use, the sooner they die off!

Meantime, there are no other suppliers because there is no profit to be made and the supplier penalties are unattractively severe!

 

We're getting pretty far off topic so I'll give you last say

Free? Where is free sex stated?

Controlled drug use is already in effect in US - Booze - sure cut down on alcoholism and DUI / DUI murders hasn't it?

NO - public opinion did that.

".. I propose that they can get as much as they want/need legally under suitably controlled conditions. The more they use, the sooner they die off!"

Why would I want to support even more welfare recipients when a bullet is much cheaper?

You want it that way? Fine you pay, I don't so why should I?

Consider your proposal is another gov program designed and administered by bureaucrats - like welfare  - providing freebies that in essence prevent people form being productive members of society.

23% vs 99% in 53 years ring a bell?  illegitimate births - imagine to increase in addicts if drugs  were readily available at low  or no cost.

You've addressed the established addict- are you proposing some non-addictive version so those experimenting don't get hooked at a very young age?

If the answer is - they would be prohibited by your program admin  consider underage drinking now. Established addicts  will sell to those not in the system and most likely recruit newbies (it is a proven aspect of addiction - encouraging others to become addicted - smoking, drinking, hard drugs - same / same)

 

Edited by lamoe (see edit history)

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HTM

I don't see the problem, it's up to the Philippines where they want to bye things.
if US and Canada want to try to dictate the Philippines in internal politics, they cant do that more.

There is a new sheriff in town

 

 

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colemanlee
3 hours ago, HTM said:

I don't see the problem, it's up to the Philippines where they want to bye things.
if US and Canada want to try to dictate the Philippines in internal politics, they cant do that more.

There is a new sheriff in town

 

 

In the end, especially if you noticed this thread was started back in February. everything remains the same.  And for all those that think this is a new direction, remember the President of the Philippines is only for six years. so unless he can get his daughter or somebody with the same agenda elected, all is for nought....personally I like DU30 but am a realist, Bong Bong Marcos is the front runner for the next president....and as much as things change, things remain the same....

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HTM

The next president........

Bato!

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Oz Jon
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, lamoe said:

...........

Free? Where is free sex stated?

............

 

You continually miss my point ...

My proposal is based on "killing the drug market" ... that is done by providing product "free of charge" so that there is "no profit to be made" by trying to sell/promote it.  ( adding severe penalties for trying too)

You asked why state supported brothels (if they are for real)  haven't killed the sex trade? ... easy!... "the sex is not free" so there is still a profit to be made by supplying paid sex ... so someone does it.

 

Edited by Oz Jon (see edit history)

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Oz Jon

Getting back on topic ... There are pros and cons with most things.

Normally, the players weigh-up the pros v the cons  and decide for/against proceeding.

The Phils, Canada and USA can be expected to do just that with regard to trade and proceed (or not) according to where they see their best interests.

However, we live in interesting times.  There are some unusual (dare I suggest, irrational?) key players around these days ... who knows how they may behave?

 

 

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Don.

"Do not sell anymore to the Philippines because there is always an IOU attached."

Seems to me to be the more accurate headline.

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rep1
On 4/14/2018 at 8:42 PM, Oz Jon said:

Maybe smart to drop English and add Mandarin to Philippines schools curriculums.

Pointless adoption but it might come true after all?

The entire SE asia really have nothing to compete with or sell to China, except food.

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Contango

There was a story on the Aussie news the other night about the Chinese talking with some (poor) pacific island nations about building a naval base or 2 in the south Pacific, had the local Aussie politicians up in arms about the possibility, got me thinking that the Chinese may have approached the DU30 Govt looking for a similar deal, then i thought hang on - they have a base out on that island in the south china sea, the Filipino island, so already have a military base in the Philippines. 

So basically China has a Military base in the Philippines but politically the Govt didn't get their hands dirty due to not actually agreeing to it while not actually doing anything concrete to stop it..and now they get the soft Chinese loans and expand the relationship, they get the benefits without the political damage, no political price to pay...its genius.

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