[seaman]

I have been doing fair bit of research to try and find a condo to rent in Cebu. Not much luck so far. I am not sure whether I have the full picture in terms of the condo market in Cebu but I have the following comments/questions:

- There are many many new condo building that are going up at the moment. So in the next year or two, the inventory should increase significantly.

- Not sure who is buying all the new pre-selling properties but it seems to me that there will be a glut of inventory soon... perhaps leading to price adjustment?

- The price of condos (not that I am considering buying right now) seems significantly higher than Malaysia (another location that I did some research). I wonder why that is.

- What's with condo units that are tiny tiny (like 20 - 30 sq M) in size? There seems to be quite a few building that offer only very small units. What's up with that?

- Rental rates seem to be totally out of whack. Many units are asking rent in the range of 1+% of purchase price per month. That's over 10+% of purchase price per year.. more than double of what is typically the accepted norm.

- If the rental rate is unreasonable, how can this be sustained? Especially with all the new units that will be coming on the market in a few years? I would think may are being bought by investors wanting to rent them out so unless rental market is viable, somethings gotta give.

- If I decide to live in Cebu permanently (after a trial of 6 - 12 months), I would definitely buy rather than rent. Again unless I am missing something why would anyone pay rent in the range of 10+% of purchase price per year?


Any comments welcome.


seaman

[Diver Douglas]

- Yes there are a lot of condos being built. There are more foreigners and balikbayans moving to Cebu, more call center / bpo agents and students moving to the city.

- I am buying these pre-sale condos. I added P9 million in condos to my real estate portfolio in the last month !

- Yes the prices are more expensive than Malaysia and now even Manila. This is Cebu and these are the prices. No need to compare just accept it.

- Yes the units are in the 20 - 30 square meter size because as long as the price is under P2.5M it is VAT exempt. But you can buy condos next to each other and add a door or join them to still be tax exempt.

- Yes the rent is in the range of 1+% of purchase price per month. That's over 10+% of purchase price per year. It is great to be an landlord. Buying condos was one of the best investments I ever made.

- How is the rent unreasonable if people are paying it. It can this be sustained because those are the prices like it or not. Like I said more people are moving to Cebu to fill those condos that are being built. Yeah for sure someday there will be a saturation, but it will always come done to Location Location Location !

- For sure if you are moving to Cebu you should for sure buy.

There is new project that just broke ground, will be done 2-3 years. 3/4 of the units sold out to priority investors before it went public. Once it went public the remaining 1/4 sold out in less than a week. I was able to buy 2 units priority so I got the top floors, view and the luckiest number in the entire building.

Anyone who is in the know want to guess which project I am talking about ? Anyone want to bet it will be the #1 address in Cebu when finished.

This post has been edited by Diver Douglas: 18 June 2010 - 12:53 AM

[bikerdave]

Mmmm is it 7777 Juenquera St. haha

[Diver Douglas]

bikerdave, on 18 June 2010 - 12:43 AM, said:

Mmmm is it 7777 Juenquera St. haha

7 is not considered a lucky number here.

I was reading in some other thread here on LinC about someone saying that someday the Colon area is going to make a come back and will be a trendy area to live.

I will put money on it that Colon will NEVER come back and will never be trendy. It will just get worse and worse . There are way too many new places to build still in Cebu.

Why would anyone invest into Colon when the SRP is about to explode to be the newest city in the Phils ! The NRP is already being developed. Word is a few more universities will build there campuses there. More students will need more living accommodations.

IT Park is going gang busters right now !

Yeah put your money in Colon.

ROTFLMAO !

[caloy]

yeah IT park is the in place now but SRP will soon launch some new properties there. There will be more condos here in the City soon since most big developers cannot buy large parcels of land for subdivisions. The company that I am affiliated might launch it's first condo in the city very soon after Avida launched its first Cebu project in IT park.

Diver Douglas, on 18 June 2010 - 01:02 AM, said:

bikerdave, on 18 June 2010 - 12:43 AM, said:

Mmmm is it 7777 Juenquera St. haha

7 is not considered a lucky number here.

I was reading in some other thread here on LinC about someone saying that someday the Colon area is going to make a come back and will be a trendy area to live.

I will put money on it that Colon will NEVER come back and will never be trendy. It will just get worse and worse . There are way too many new places to build still in Cebu.

Why would anyone invest into Colon when the SRP is about to explode to be the newest city in the Phils ! The NRP is already being developed. Word is a few more universities will build there campuses there. More students will need more living accommodations.

IT Park is going gang busters right now !

Yeah put your money in Colon.

ROTFLMAO !

[David_LivinginTalisay]

Diver Douglas, on 18 June 2010 - 12:16 AM, said:

- Yes there are a lot of condos being built. There are more foreigners and balikbayans moving to Cebu, more call center / bpo agents and students moving to the city.

- I am buying these pre-sale condos. I added P9 million in condos to my real estate portfolio in the last month !

- Yes the prices are more expensive than Malaysia and now even Manila. This is Cebu and these are the prices. No need to compare just accept it.

- Yes the units are in the 20 - 30 square meter size because as long as the price is under P2.5M it is VAT exempt. But you can buy condos next to each other and add a door or join them to still be tax exempt.

- Yes the rent is in the range of 1+% of purchase price per month. That's over 10+% of purchase price per year. It is great to be an landlord. Buying condos was one of the best investments I ever made.

- How is the rent unreasonable if people are paying it. It can this be sustained because those are the prices like it or not. Like I said more people are moving to Cebu to fill those condos that are being built. Yeah for sure someday there will be a saturation, but it will always come done to Location Location Location !

- For sure if you are moving to Cebu you should for sure buy.

There is new project that just broke ground, will be done 2-3 years. 3/4 of the units sold out to priority investors before it went public. Once it went public the remaining 1/4 sold out in less than a week. I was able to buy 2 units priority so I got the top floors, view and the luckiest number in the entire building.

From the brief comparisons I have done, the cost of Cono/Apartments here in Cebu are more expensive compared to this in Metro Manila. I guess it is all down to supply and demand, with their being a 'glut' of units for Sale making it a BUYERS Market, whereas in Cebu there are not really that many to select from, with most choise apartments having been sold before any public launch pre-selling.

I don't understand this 'logic' of buying 2 x smaller apartments under Php2.5M becuse they are VAT exempt, since the cost of the larger apartments seems to be the same as two smaller apartments of camparable floor area?

Take 'The Persimmon' as an example, located near 'Kiwi Lodge' and within walking distance of both 'Ayala Center' and slightly nearer 'SM'.





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Why is it that Condominium Apartments are so expensive in Cebu, yet someone is buying them,
as nearly all sold in the West Tower with handover in December 2010?

The North Tower wont be completed until end of 2011, and is on pre-selling prices currently, so somewhat lower price than those units still available in West Tower



The Persimmon North Tower

STUDIO TPNT06A 23 Sqm /248 Sqft Php 1,811,631
1 BEDROOM TPNT05D 45 Sqm /441 Sqft Php 3,553,529

2 x Studio apartment would give 46 Sq m but would cost 2 x Php1,1811,631 = Php3,623,262
compared to 1 Bedroom of 45 sq m costing Php 3,553,529 so comparable not really cheaper?

Here is my idea to make the cost of 'ownership' of such Condo's, a good investment.

Studio Price Php1,811,631
30% Deposit = Php 543,490
Balance = Php1,268,141 - payable interest free over 24 months = Php52,840 pm x 24

I placed Php1M with this Family Business, that is importing Rice and Sugar, and get Php50,000pm ROI

So for just over Php1.6M, I could put down the 30% Deposit for a Studio, invest the rest in this Rice and Sugar Import business, have them pay the installments for 24 months, then not only own a Studio Apartment in The Persimmon, but get Php1M+ balance back from that Rice/Sugar Import business?

What sort of Nett Rental Income would a 23 sq m Studio Apartment in 'The Persimmon' be able to generate?

This post has been edited by David_LivinginTalisay: 21 June 2010 - 11:42 AM

[Diver Douglas]

David_LivinginTalisay, on 21 June 2010 - 11:11 AM, said:

whereas in Cebu there are not really that many to select from, with most choise apartments having been sold before any public launch pre-selling.

I don't understand this 'logic' of buying 2 x smaller apartments under Php2.5M becuse they are VAT exempt, since the cost of the larger apartments seems to be the same as two smaller apartments of camparable floor area?

Take 'The Persimmon' as an example, located near 'Kiwi Lodge' and within walking distance of both 'Ayala Center' and slightly nearer 'SM'.

The logic of buying 2 condos under P2.5M is because it is VAT exempt. Yes the larger condos are the same size floor area but cost over P2.5M so you will have to pay VAT. So why does'nt it make sense to buy 2 condos next to each other and just connect them having the same floor area but not having to pay VAT ?

I had the chance to buy condos at the Persimmon as a qualified priority buyer before it was launched to the public for sale, but I turned it down. For me it was because the location isn't right for my demographic.

[mikejwoodnz]

David_LivinginTalisay, on 21 June 2010 - 04:11 PM, said:

I placed Php1M with this Family Business, that is importing Rice and Sugar, and get Php50,000pm ROI

So for just over Php1.6M, I could put down the 30% Deposit for a Studio, invest the rest in this Rice and Sugar Import business, have them pay the installments for 24 months, then not only own a Studio Apartment in The Persimmon, but get Php1M+ balance back from that Rice/Sugar Import business?

What sort of Nett Rental Income would a 23 sq m Studio Apartment in 'The Persimmon' be able to generate?

you are failing to factor in the risk - lose the "invested money" and you lose the Condo - also you are dealing with people who no doubt have a history of rice dealing going back many generations (why should they need your money?) - like your previous scenarios, I see the "investment" ending up in blood and tears for the imprudent.

[robert51]

mikejwoodnz, on 21 June 2010 - 06:02 PM, said:

David_LivinginTalisay, on 21 June 2010 - 04:11 PM, said:

I placed Php1M with this Family Business, that is importing Rice and Sugar, and get Php50,000pm ROI

So for just over Php1.6M, I could put down the 30% Deposit for a Studio, invest the rest in this Rice and Sugar Import business, have them pay the installments for 24 months, then not only own a Studio Apartment in The Persimmon, but get Php1M+ balance back from that Rice/Sugar Import business?

What sort of Nett Rental Income would a 23 sq m Studio Apartment in 'The Persimmon' be able to generate?

you are failing to factor in the risk - lose the "invested money" and you lose the Condo - also you are dealing with people who no doubt have a history of rice dealing going back many generations (why should they need your money?) - like your previous scenarios, I see the "investment" ending up in blood and tears for the imprudent.

well the best investment is to get other suckers to put up the money and then you can just take a small or large cut... OPM... other peoples money oh and the next best investment is the post dated check or as they say in the philippines the rubber paper...i smell V8 and pre needs all over again/// seems investment in a condo has very little to do with investment in rice... but i do remember if you invest in V8 then they will with a BANK Guarantee pay you enough to make up for the money you lost in the pre needs plan which is needed so you can make up for the money you have in the Legacy bank plan how many here made big money investing in V8 or the pre needs plan and what did they do with all the rubber checks they received ..

This post has been edited by robert51: 21 June 2010 - 02:31 PM

[David_LivinginTalisay]

mikejwoodnz, on 21 June 2010 - 02:02 PM, said:

David_LivinginTalisay, on 21 June 2010 - 04:11 PM, said:

I placed Php1M with this Family Business, that is importing Rice and Sugar, and get Php50,000pm ROI

So for just over Php1.6M, I could put down the 30% Deposit for a Studio, invest the rest in this Rice and Sugar Import business, have them pay the installments for 24 months, then not only own a Studio Apartment in The Persimmon, but get Php1M+ balance back from that Rice/Sugar Import business?

What sort of Nett Rental Income would a 23 sq m Studio Apartment in 'The Persimmon' be able to generate?

you are failing to factor in the risk - lose the "invested money" and you lose the Condo - also you are dealing with people who no doubt have a history of rice dealing going back many generations (why should they need your money?) - like your previous scenarios, I see the "investment" ending up in blood and tears for the imprudent.

This Family Business were only importing 10 x Containers per month previously. Because of the hike in Sugar Prices towards the end of last year, they saw an 'window of opportunity' to increase profits by leveraging off the price increases but needed to raise Capital in a hurry. Then there was the Rice shortage so they took advantage of that also and are now importing 40 x containers a month.

This Family won't be offering such high returns, once they have secured increased Buiness Loans at much lower Interest Rates.

This means it is unrealistic to expect 2 Year ROI at that rate! However I did secure a 1 Year term on Php1M with this Family Business fairly recently, and a previous Php1M over 1 year that matures next month.

Sure there is a risk that this Family Business, might not honor those post dated checks, just like the ones given out by the compamy of Mayor Celso G de los Angeles Jr, and those of Catherine L. Soronio. The difference being is those other two did not seem to care about negative media affecting their reputation and the effect on long term business relationships with clients.

So I am now looking to 'diversify' and whilst I have been offered conversion to shares in this family business, I am looking into putting some money into real estate.

A condominium can be in my own name, provided that no mors than 40% of the Condominium Corporation for such Development is not more than 40% of the total units in such Condominium Subdivision.

[mikejwoodnz]

David_LivinginTalisay, on 21 June 2010 - 07:38 PM, said:

mikejwoodnz, on 21 June 2010 - 02:02 PM, said:

David_LivinginTalisay, on 21 June 2010 - 04:11 PM, said:

I placed Php1M with this Family Business, that is importing Rice and Sugar, and get Php50,000pm ROI

So for just over Php1.6M, I could put down the 30% Deposit for a Studio, invest the rest in this Rice and Sugar Import business, have them pay the installments for 24 months, then not only own a Studio Apartment in The Persimmon, but get Php1M+ balance back from that Rice/Sugar Import business?

What sort of Nett Rental Income would a 23 sq m Studio Apartment in 'The Persimmon' be able to generate?

you are failing to factor in the risk - lose the "invested money" and you lose the Condo - also you are dealing with people who no doubt have a history of rice dealing going back many generations (why should they need your money?) - like your previous scenarios, I see the "investment" ending up in blood and tears for the imprudent.

This Family Business were only importing 10 x Containers per month previously. Because of the hike in Sugar Prices towards the end of last year, they saw an 'window of opportunity' to increase profits by leveraging off the price increases but needed to raise Capital in a hurry. Then there was the Rice shortage so they took advantage of that also and are now importing 40 x containers a month.

This Family won't be offering such high returns, once they have secured increased Buiness Loans at much lower Interest Rates.

This means it is unrealistic to expect 2 Year ROI at that rate! However I did secure a 1 Year term on Php1M with this Family Business fairly recently, and a previous Php1M over 1 year that matures next month.

Sure there is a risk that this Family Business, might not honor those post dated checks, just like the ones given out by the compamy of Mayor Celso G de los Angeles Jr, and those of Catherine L. Soronio. The difference being is those other two did not seem to care about negative media affecting their reputation and the effect on long term business relationships with clients.

So I am now looking to 'diversify' and whilst I have been offered conversion to shares in this family business, I am looking into putting some money into real estate.

A condominium can be in my own name, provided that no mors than 40% of the Condominium Corporation for such Development is not more than 40% of the total units in such Condominium Subdivision.

yeah right LOL -

[David_LivinginTalisay]

robert51, on 21 June 2010 - 02:17 PM, said:

well the best investment is to get other suckers to put up the money and then you can just take a small or large cut... OPM... other peoples money oh and the next best investment is the post dated check or as they say in the philippines the rubber paper...i smell V8 and pre needs all over again/// seems investment in a condo has very little to do with investment in rice... but i do remember if you invest in V8 then they will with a BANK Guarantee pay you enough to make up for the money you lost in the pre needs plan which is needed so you can make up for the money you have in the Legacy bank plan how many here made big money investing in V8 or the pre needs plan and what did they do with all the rubber checks they received ..

Robert51,

Putting money in Rural Banks is not a SCAM and such Bank Deposits are covered by the PDIC up to the Maximum Insured Deposit.

We have only 2 x outstanding claims now, and are disputing the shortfall payment on 4 x recent payments.

Since you mention the Pre-Needs Plan - yes we lost money on that, but we only put in what we could afford to lose and reinvested what money we made, so we lost what we could have made also. It was a gamble, a risk that I took in an effort to increase my Capital quickly. I could have gone to the Casino and put my money on the Roulette wheel and gotten what 49:51 Odds at making some money quickly?

I considered that the Pre-Needs Pension Plan was less risky than gambling or putting my money in Stocks and Shares! Had the SEC been doing their job properly and checking that 51% of all Plans Sold got put into thge Trust Fund and the only funds being taken out of the Trust Fund was for Maturing Pension Plans. But wait Legacy should never have been given a Permit to sell such Pension Plans, had the SEC done proper investigation into the Contracts, Terms and Conditions, and made sure Legacy were adhering to theSEC's 'Pre-Need Plan Rules', then no one would have lost money on such, or certainly not as much.

That is 'Off-Topic' with regard this Thread however, same with mention of V8 Motorcyles, that I also lost money in. Basically we discovered that turned out to be a 'scam', as Catherine L. Soronio, never even paid 'Zongshen' Php10M for those 900 x Motorcyes she had imported through 'Toro Motors; the official Zongshen Philippines partner. Zongshen left out some essential parts so these motorcycles could nevr have the assembly completed so they could be used on the road. Had Soronio actually used some of the money she conned off us, and actually paid Zongshen, then the 'V8 Motorcycles' could have been in her Showrooms getting sold with Financing and generating income to pay us 'Angel Investors'. Well Soronio will have an Arrest Warrent issued if she fails to show up at the BP22 Estafa court case Hearing.

I have been making good return on my investment wth this Family Business that I put money into and more money when the PDIC paid up. I have never mentioned the name of this business so am not promoting such. I have been making good money to live off from this investment and should continue to do so and have been offered 'Shares' in this Php50M 'Private' business.

Robert51, as far as I know you never put your funds in Rural Banks, or Pre-Need Pension Plans, and certainly not V8 Motorcycles? You don't even know the details of who or what this Family Business is, so you can't join in on that and lose any of your money or make a good ROI on that, now can you?

So you have never lost any money, doing the same as I have done, so 'what's your beef'?

You post on this Forum advising people to get into Real Estate - is that true?

Here am I talking about putting my own money into a Condominium or some other Real Estate in the name of my wife, and you go off-thread bring up other investments that did not make me such good ROI.

So have you ever bought Stocks/Shares and made a big profit on each and every one of them?

I am putting some funds into this Php50M company, as I expect very good 'dividends' on my investment, even if no increase in my Capital.

I intend to spend my 'dvidends' on a Condominium.

So please stay on-Topic and discuss the validity of Real estate as part of ones Investment Portfolio and not other investments that I used to have in my Portfolio, and not discussing here OK?

This post has been edited by David_LivinginTalisay: 21 June 2010 - 03:23 PM

[mikejwoodnz]

David_LivinginTalisay, on 21 June 2010 - 08:12 PM, said:

I am putting some funds into this Php50M company, as I expect very good 'dividends' on my investment, even if no increase in my Capital.

I intend to spend my 'dvidends' on a Condominium.

So please stay on-Topic and discuss the validity of Real estate as part of ones Investment Portfolio and not other investments that I used to have in my Portfolio, and not discussing here OK?

OK - please take your own advise - I wouldn't think anyone would be interested in your fairy tale financial wizardry but for those like myself who are genuinely interested in Cebu Real Estate investment then Diver Douglas has explained the answer to your questions very clearly in his above posts. The smaller sized apartments with their lower price do not attract VAT and there is a large pool of potential low risk renter families for these. 12% return on total capital is normal for residential investing and with correct gearing will readily produce a steady 33% ROI equity - no need for crystal ball bullshit

[robert51]

David_LivinginTalisay, on 21 June 2010 - 07:12 PM, said:

robert51, on 21 June 2010 - 02:17 PM, said:

well the best investment is to get other suckers to put up the money and then you can just take a small or large cut... OPM... other peoples money oh and the next best investment is the post dated check or as they say in the philippines the rubber paper...i smell V8 and pre needs all over again/// seems investment in a condo has very little to do with investment in rice... but i do remember if you invest in V8 then they will with a BANK Guarantee pay you enough to make up for the money you lost in the pre needs plan which is needed so you can make up for the money you have in the Legacy bank plan how many here made big money investing in V8 or the pre needs plan and what did they do with all the rubber checks they received ..

Robert51,

Putting money in Rural Banks is not a SCAM and such Bank Deposits are covered by the PDIC up to the Maximum Insured Deposit.

We have only 2 x outstanding claims now, and are disputing the shortfall payment on 4 x recent payments.

Since you mention the Pre-Needs Plan - yes we lost money on that, but we only put in what we could afford to lose and reinvested what money we made, so we lost what we could have made also. It was a gamble, a risk that I took in an effort to increase my Capital quickly. I could have gone to the Casino and put my money on the Roulette wheel and gotten what 49:51 Odds at making some money quickly?

I considered that the Pre-Needs Pension Plan was less risky than gambling or putting my money in Stocks and Shares! Had the SEC been doing their job properly and checking that 51% of all Plans Sold got put into thge Trust Fund and the only funds being taken out of the Trust Fund was for Maturing Pension Plans. But wait Legacy should never have been given a Permit to sell such Pension Plans, had the SEC done proper investigation into the Contracts, Terms and Conditions, and made sure Legacy were adhering to theSEC's 'Pre-Need Plan Rules', then no one would have lost money on such, or certainly not as much.

That is 'Off-Topic' with regard this Thread however, same with mention of V8 Motorcyles, that I also lost money in. Basically we discovered that turned out to be a 'scam', as Catherine L. Soronio, never even paid 'Zongshen' Php10M for those 900 x Motorcyes she had imported through 'Toro Motors; the official Zongshen Philippines partner. Zongshen left out some essential parts so these motorcycles could nevr have the assembly completed so they could be used on the road. Had Soronio actually used some of the money she conned off us, and actually paid Zongshen, then the 'V8 Motorcycles' could have been in her Showrooms getting sold with Financing and generating income to pay us 'Angel Investors'. Well Soronio will have an Arrest Warrent issued if she fails to show up at the BP22 Estafa court case Hearing.

I have been making good return on my investment wth this Family Business that I put money into and more money when the PDIC paid up. I have never mentioned the name of this business so am not promoting such. I have been making good money to live off from this investment and should continue to do so and have been offered 'Shares' in this Php50M 'Private' business.

Robert51, as far as I know you never put your funds in Rural Banks, or Pre-Need Pension Plans, and certainly not V8 Motorcycles? You don't even know the details of who or what this Family Business is, so you can't join in on that and lose any of your money or make a good ROI on that, now can you?

So you have never lost any money, doing the same as I have done, so 'what's your beef'?

You post on this Forum advising people to get into Real Estate - is that true?

Here am I talking about putting my own money into a Condominium or some other Real Estate in the name of my wife, and you go off-thread bring up other investments that did not make me such good ROI.

So have you ever bought Stocks/Shares and made a big profit on each and every one of them?

I am putting some funds into this Php50M company, as I expect very good 'dividends' on my investment, even if no increase in my Capital.

I intend to spend my 'dvidends' on a Condominium.

So please stay on-Topic and discuss the validity of Real estate as part of ones Investment Portfolio and not other investments that I used to have in my Portfolio, and not discussing here OK?

No stocks or other double your money tomorrow (((investments for me... and did legacy pay you in the 90 days as you were lead to believe? Did pre needs give you a share of the spoils after the take over? If and its a big If the women in the V8 investment is every tried and convicted will this finally give you back your lost funds? Land sure I invest in land 2000 sq meters one lot 4495 sq meters another lot 6500 sq meters another lot 350 sq meters another lot... Tier 2 investments paying 9.5% in their 5th year thru union bank and some US investments that are at best breaking even ... Investments I have turned down ... 3% a month to float a cash flow in the multi cab business min. investment 500,000 month .. 5% a month to back a load of goods from China to the south of the Philippines ... Now the 3 % one went on for 14 months and every month I heard man did you screw up and now the guy is holding a check for 500,000p and its rubber hummmmm

[Admin]

This topic is NOT about LEGACY. This topic is NOT about Investing in rural banks. This topic is about condominiums, which foreigners CAN OWN, by the way. So, let's keep it on topic!!!!

From now on, I do NOT want to see anything posted about Legacy on this forum again, unless it is referring to the car which is sold locally. I'm sick of hearing about the same shit hashed over and over again.

For fuck's sake people, don't you ever get tired of repeating the same shit over and over again?

It happened. If you invested in it, as I did, then you won some and you lost some. If you didn't invest in it whatsoever, there is no reason to be concerned about it anyway, now is there?

The Legacy thing is over and done with. Let's move on.

[aguadefumar]

Hello,
Very informative board. But mostly I have been checking the real estate on the net.
I just put a reservation fee down on a pre-selling condo "CityLoft Mango". I think this would be the best area for me from what I have seen on the net and maps. I am currently in US.
I will be staying in the condo.
Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

[loosehead]

Buying condo units "off the plan" or "pre-construction" is high risk. Like any speculative investment where you are buying something that doesn't currently exist, do not invest more than you can afford to lose. Prices in Cebu being higher than Manila suggests a "bubble" and a possible correction. The other factor for a westerner investing in the Phils is the probability of the property devaluing in $ terms in line with the peso. Ten years ago the peso was approx 25 to the $. In my opinion the depressed real estate market in the US is a far better long term investment proposition.

[aguadefumar]

loosehead, on 30 July 2010 - 09:24 PM, said:

Buying condo units "off the plan" or "pre-construction" is high risk. Like any speculative investment where you are buying something that doesn't currently exist, do not invest more than you can afford to lose. Prices in Cebu being higher than Manila suggests a "bubble" and a possible correction. The other factor for a westerner investing in the Phils is the probability of the property devaluing in $ terms in line with the peso. Ten years ago the peso was approx 25 to the $. In my opinion the depressed real estate market in the US is a far better long term investment proposition.

Thanks for your response. I have considered the risks, as my house in us has lost over 30% from purchase price. I understand the murky side of real estate.
But it is more than just an investment to me. I am going to start from square 1 again @ age 55, 2 years from now.

[David_LivinginTalisay]

We have heard some say that there are numerous advantages to being in a position to put down a Reservation for new Developments, before they are even presented at a Public Launch.

These include:-

• Pre-Selling Discounts
• Choice of Unit/Size/Floor/Direction

However, I have discovered that some Condo Developments, fell way behind Delivery Schedule for whatever reason.

So where does this leave those who put money down early - before the Public Launch. I do not know if anyone would put money down before a 'CERTIFICATE OF REGISTRATION' was issued, and 'LICENSE TO SELL' obtained, which is before the foundations were even completed, and the Condo Building started to rise?

How long were these funds, placed to secure a choice of Apartment on a particular Floor, facing a particular direction, at a pre-launch discount, sitting idle, earning you nothing but lost interest on those funds?


Ultima Residences Ramos Towers
Owner: ................J. King & Sons Inc.
Developer:...........Fuente Triangle Dev Corp.

License to Sell:....17415 16th March 2007
Certificate of Registratiion: 16431 16th March 2007


As you can see, this particular Condo Development, Ultima Residences Ramos Towers obtained its Certificate of Registration and License to Sell on 16th March 2007 ('OR' issued 12/20/06).



1 Complete the project in accordance with the approved development plan therefore not later than ____ONE YEAR___and advise buyers in writing of such time frame for development.



Clearly this Project did NOT get completed One Year later ie 16th March 2008!



6 Pay the real estate tax/assessment on the lot/unit until the year the title is transferred to or actual possession/occupation it taken by


7 Refrain from forfeiting payments made by the buyers who suspend amortization after due notice to owner or developer on ground of incomplete development or non-development.



Seems one can suspend amortization payments, after giving due notice to Owner or Developer, if there is DELAY in completing or not going ahead with the Development, and they are responsible for the Real Estate Tax/Assessment, until Title is transferred,


The point I am making, is some Projects do get behind schedule, like this one, by 3.5 Years, as it not due for turnover until December 2011.


That is long time waiting to use, or get ROI, from letting such Condo Unit.


I am considering buying a 27.5 sq m Condotel Unit in Ultima Residences Ramos Towers
The quoted Total Contract Value = Php2,063,609.08 (Php75,040.33/ sq m)

The 'Terms' are Php50,000 Reservation Fee, 30% Deposit, less Reservation Fee, payable over 3 Months, 40% payable over 14 Months, 30% Balance on Turnover


I am sure there are some who could have got it at a much better price than this, back in 2007 when the Developer had that Certificate of Registration and License to Sell?


I am sure many will think this price is excessive, for just 27.5 sq m Condo Unit, and they could be right.


Here is how I look at it - I held onto Php1M since June 2009, from the PDIC, and invested it, instead of putting it down on a Condo back then!
It become Php1,420,000.00 in total over 12 months.
I had another Php1M in January 2010 from the PDIC, and invested it for 6 months and it became Php1,300,000.00 in Total.
I intend to reinvest Php1M over 18 months, and this will cover the Amortization payments, for those 14 months.


So perhaps I did pay more, but then again, I earned more, from investing my funds, instead of putting it down 'early'.
It should end up costing me only 25% of my Capital, the rest covered from my investments, hopefully.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 

[David_LivinginTalisay]

Ultima Residences Ramos Towers offers 'Condotel Leaseback Program'

PROPOSAL
Premier Condo Unit

Leaseback Program

CONDOTEL UNIT TYPES PER FLOOR APPLICABLE FOR LEASEBACK PROGRAM
27.10 - 28.00 sq. m.
Projected Room Rate / Night Php 2,000
Pro-RATA Share 1.0


WHY INVEST?

As a unit owner, you can use your unit for free for 30-days benefit & you'll have a 335-Day for leaseback program.
projected income based on the assumption of a Php 2,000 room rate / day and at different occupancy rates. ( Based on 28 sq. m. unit)

• 335 days @ 80% occupancy = 268 days x Php 2,000/ day = PHP 536,000.
  
  • Deduct approx. 50% as management fee, taxes, incentive bonus
  Net Income Annually = PHP 268,000
  
  
• 335 days @ 70% occupancy = 268 days x Php 2,000/ day = PHP 469,000
  
  • Deduct approx. 50% as management fee, taxes, incentive bonus
  Net Income Annually = PHP 234,000
  
  
• 335 days @ 60% occupancy = 268 days x Php 2,000/ day = Php 402,000
  
  • Deduct approx. 50% as management fee, taxes, incentive bonus
  Net Income Annually = PHP 201,000
  

RAMOS TOWER LEASEBACK PROGRAM

How Does the Lease-Back Program Work
(Rental Pooling)?

• Unit owners will receive monthly income based on the type of unit regardless of whether the unit was leased or not.
  
  This is because RAMOS TOWER will pool together its entire total income from rental operations and distribute this
  to unit owners according to the percentage sharing based on gross income.

How does Ramos Tower Condotel differ from other real estate investments?

• Other condominiums grow in value over time but only the property value.
  
  The Ramos Tower condotel grows in value faster than other condominiums because as a unit owner, you are also a member of Club Ultima which entitles you room nights every year which you can use at any Crown Regency Hotel, or at more than 2,000 hotel & resorts in the world affiliated with Interval International
  
  You can also use of your own unit whenever you desire and while you are not using it, your condominium unit earns for you. Ramos Tower property not only grows in value but also changed your lifestyle!

• When you own a unit in Ramos Tower, you possess ownership of a prime and actively earning piece of real estate investment
  whose ownership is evidenced by a CONDOMINIUM CERTIFICATE OF TITLE (CCT).

Who will operate the Ramos Tower Condotel upon commercialization?

CROWN REGENCY HOTEL GROUP
experienced hotel chain owned by the J King & Sons Co.,Inc. whose existing hotels are:

• Club Ultima Fuente Tower, Cebu
• Crown Regency Suites & Residences in Mactan
• Crown Regency Residences in Guadalupe, Cebu City
• Crown Regency Residences in Davao City
• Crown Regency Hotel & Towers in Fuente Osmeña, Cebu
• Crown Regency Hotel in Makati
• Crown Regency Resort Hotel in Station 3, Boracay Island

What is the Minimum Period of the Lease-Back Program?

• Upon turnover of URRT condotel unit, the unit owner may immediately lease-back their unit to the condotel operator.
  
  
• The minimum period you can have your unit enrolled in rental pooling is Ten (10) Years.

How many days in a year can a unit owner use his condotel unit for free?

• Unit owners may use their condotel units for THIRTY (30) DAYS A YEAR.
  
  
• Unit owners who exceed their 30 days use will have to pay 70% of the regular rental rates.
  However, your payment will be included in the computation for rental revenue share and will be deducted on your monthly rental income.

What if the unit owner was not able to use his day benefit in a year

• If their unit was rented out during their thirty (30) day allotment, they will will receive rental share if it was rented out during that period.
  

Are there association dues to be paid once the Condotel unit is enrolled under the Lease-Back Program?

• There are NO Association Dues or Maintenance Fees to be paid once a condotel unit is enrolled under rental pooling by the unit owner.
  
  
• The condotel/hotel operator shall take care of the association dues, maintenance and security of their investment.

Quote

A condotel buyer whopurchases a unit at 30% DP payable in 3 months, means he is eligible to purchase the required Club Ultima Membership (Individual A) at only 30% of existing selling price provided the membership is paid within 30 days from the date of reservation.

Php 301,134 x 30% = Php 90,340.20 SAVE P210,793.80!!!

This post has been edited by David_LivinginTalisay: 01 August 2010 - 04:49 AM

[Willie]

aguadefumar, on 30 July 2010 - 08:36 PM, said:

Hello,
Very informative board. But mostly I have been checking the real estate on the net.
I just put a reservation fee down on a pre-selling condo "CityLoft Mango". I think this would be the best area for me from what I have seen on the net and maps. I am currently in US.
I will be staying in the condo.
Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

Frequent recommendation here is to rent for one year before buying. This is for a variety of reasons including making sure RP/Cebu is a good fit for you, and to better understand the market, as well as taking time to identify a good buy.

[aguadefumar]

Hello again,
Yes thank you David and Willie for those thoughts very good info for me. Well at present I still feel this is the right fit for me. I to am a seaman and have been doing it for 30 years. I have been around a little bit, but never Cebu or Philippines.
I could not get a loan here even if I wanted to. This also is a Fuente Triangle realty project with a 30-40-30 scheme. It seems fair to me as they are charging no interest.
I did get lucky in the real estate market here in Florida, and made a nice sum. But could not have foreseen that my now ex-wife would walk away with all of that in one stroke of divorce.
So I can deal with loss of investment. Booze helps, ha ha. I have been to many 3rd world countries, and even vacationed in a few. But their real estate is overpriced for me. I also like to use the numbeo cost of living comparison on the net. Very neat program. Seems to be fairly accurate. My meager pension would go a lot further in Philippines.
Anyway thanks and will appreciate any other thoughts.
agua

[David_LivinginTalisay]

aguadefumar, on 01 August 2010 - 07:55 AM, said:

Hello again,
Yes thank you David and Willie for those thoughts very good info for me. Well at present I still feel this is the right fit for me. I to am a seaman and have been doing it for 30 years. I have been around a little bit, but never Cebu or Philippines.
I could not get a loan here even if I wanted to. This also is a Fuente Triangle realty project with a 30-40-30 scheme. It seems fair to me as they are charging no interest.
I did get lucky in the real estate market here in Florida, and made a nice sum. But could not have foreseen that my now ex-wife would walk away with all of that in one stroke of divorce.
So I can deal with loss of investment. Booze helps, ha ha. I have been to many 3rd world countries, and even vacationed in a few. But their real estate is overpriced for me. I also like to use the numbeo cost of living comparison on the net. Very neat program. Seems to be fairly accurate. My meager pension would go a lot further in Philippines.
Anyway thanks and will appreciate any other thoughts.
agua

Agua,

You are most welcome.

I was aware that City Loft Citiloft condotels, Mango, Jakosalem, Ranudo is another Fuente Triangle Realty project

CitiLoft, Mango is a good location, as it is walking distance to Ayala Center
(take the 'short cut' road above the 'e' in General Maxilom on that Map, and it comes out in the 'green' of Ayala Business Park).

You are also walking distance to the late night-life up Mango Avenue, as well as Club Ultima.
I went with Ramos Tower for the following reasons:-


i) Relatively 'Affordable' for me, with my current finances/investments,
ii) 70% Discount off Club Ultima Membership, giving FREE use of Gym, Swimming Pool, etc
(so no need to pay Php2.5K Membership of Fitness first per month)
iii) Handover anticipated December 2011,
iv) Condotel Leaseback Program.




They informed me there is no problem operating my own 'leasing' of my Condotel unit as alternative to signing up to their program.

They estimate Rental to be Php2,000/day, for such 28 sq m Condotel Unit

If I was to do my own Rental, it would be for 3 months Term min, and perhaps 25K/month rental - is this realistic?





As you can see from this Map, there is City Loft 2 and City Loft 3 also.


I would have preferred Fuente Tower 3 as a 64.75 sq m 'Loft' unit came back on the market, but it was Php4419,924.64 and required 20% Downpayment & 80% via Bank Financing.

I could not easily afford that, and not significantly better ROI fom Condotel Leaseback either.


I also looked at their Boracay Condotel Program with 45 Days FREE a year, but this was 'pushing it' with my available finances, currently as Php6-10.5M. Not sure I would want to put as much Php10.5M into such Condo, even if I did have the funds. The Reservation Fee is Php100K and on that Php6M unit in Boracay, the Downpaymant Balance was Php1.7M over 6 months , then Php100K x 24 months for amortization, followed by Php1.8N on Turnover. If you only paid 30% when in the Condotel Program, then rental income is reduced accordingly. That price is inclusive of Club Ultima International Membership (Php360K with 7 Free days).


They advise, that once you are a 'Family Member' of J King's 'empire of Crown Regency/Club Ultima, then you can 'trade up' to bigger and/or newer developments.


Richard King is keen to enhance the 'value' of his 'Family' members investments. Membership of Club Ultima is life long and 'transferable (like Golf Club Shares), and used to cost under Php100K, so 'tripled' in value. He also stated in one of his Newletters, that there will be 5-10% pricing increase of all Developments, once a new project released onto the Market.

This post has been edited by David_LivinginTalisay: 01 August 2010 - 12:12 PM

[FarEast]

aguadefumar, on 31 July 2010 - 08:36 AM, said:

Hello,
Very informative board. But mostly I have been checking the real estate on the net.
I just put a reservation fee down on a pre-selling condo "CityLoft Mango". I think this would be the best area for me from what I have seen on the net and maps. I am currently in US.
I will be staying in the condo.
Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

If I read that right you are saying that you are buying a condo unit at CityLoft without visiting the site or talking with the developer's staff in person.

The problem with that property is that it is situated on a VERY busy road and intersection so be prepared for lots of noise and smoke belching jeepneys and motor cycles when you eventually get possession of the unit.

Construction of that property will not be finished for at least another five or six years. That's not rumor. We heard that directly from the project manager at Fuente Triangle who said that their Ultima Prime tower on Ramos Street will be completed first before any work starts on City Loft Mango.

.

This post has been edited by FarEast: 01 August 2010 - 04:47 PM

[David_LivinginTalisay]

David_LivinginTalisay, on 01 August 2010 - 03:16 AM, said:

We have heard some say that there are numerous advantages to being in a position to put down a Reservation for new Developments, before they are even presented at a Public Launch.

These include:-

• Pre-Selling Discounts
• Choice of Unit/Size/Floor/Direction

However, I have discovered that some Condo Developments, fell way behind Delivery Schedule for whatever reason.

So where does this leave those who put money down early - before the Public Launch. I do not know if anyone would put money down before a 'CERTIFICATE OF REGISTRATION' was issued, and 'LICENSE TO SELL' obtained, which is before the foundations were even completed, and the Condo Building started to rise?

How long were these funds, placed to secure a choice of Apartment on a particular Floor, facing a particular direction, at a pre-launch discount, sitting idle, earning you nothing but lost interest on those funds?
attachment=5425:LICENSE TO SELL.jpg]

Ultima Residences Ramos Towers
Owner: ................J. King & Sons Inc.
Developer:...........Fuente Triangle Dev Corp.

License to Sell:....17415 16th March 2007
Certificate of Registratiion: 16431 16th March 2007

As you can see, this particular Condo Development, Ultima Residences Ramos Towers obtained its Certificate of Registration and License to Sell on 16th March 2007 ('OR' issued 12/20/06).

1 Complete the project in accordance with the approved development plan therefore not later than ____ONE YEAR___and advise buyers in writing of such time frame for development.

Clearly this Project did NOT get completed One Year later ie 16th March 2008!

6 Pay the real estate tax/assessment on the lot/unit until the year the title is transferred to or actual possession/occupation it taken by

7 Refrain from forfeiting payments made by the buyers who suspend amortization after due notice to owner or developer on ground of incomplete development or non-development.

Seems one can suspend amortization payments, after giving due notice to Owner or Developer, if there is DELAY in completing or not going ahead with the Development, and they are responsible for the Real Estate Tax/Assessment, until Title is transferred,

The point I am making, is some Projects do get behind schedule, like this one, by 3.5 Years, as it not due for turnover until December 2011.

That is long time waiting to use, or get ROI, from letting such Condo Unit.

http://www.skyscrape...t=452783&page=5

Quote

November 7th, 2007


Preselling Stage of Ultima Residences Ramos Tower started as early as 2006 (November to be exact). And yes, we have been advised and informed by VP Joe Guianzon to advise potential buyers that the project would be delivered by 2009 This was even indicated on the first brochures and floorplans released by Fuente Triangle. I believe there were changes the year after as the floor plans have been changed and the number of units had been increased.

Quote

June 9th, 2008
vaticsProperty Advisor

"excavation works have just started last week after all the metal sheets used to hold the excavation site's retaining wall at fuente tower were transported at the ramos tower site".

rustyboiM-055-1M0
i was rushing to finish this edit. at least this is how its gonna look like. here's the Ramos Tower

image hosted on flickr



July 29th, 2008, 01:45 PM #182


christie
Your Real Estate Partner

Hopefully sir.

Anyway, due to the insistent public demand (after selling out all units of Ramos Tower) we have decided to convert the Penthouse floors of the condotel to typical studio-type units. This opened 34 units (17 units per floor) up for grabs which will be located on the topmost floors (32nd and 33rd floor).

July 29th, 2008, 02:41 PM #184

christie
Your Real Estate Partner

Originally Posted by barukdok hi christie. what's the price range of the units?


floor /unit / total area / price

32 / 12 / 25.60sq m / Php2,005,149.95

to

33 / 14 / 42.10sq m / Php3,438,238.67

March 23rd, 2009, 09:45 AM #245


rustyboiM-055-1M0

Ramos Tower for everyone's information is delayed for about 3 years. When Fuente Triangle started selling Ramos condo units in year 2006, they told buyers the turn-over is on 2009. Then they revised the turn-over date to December 2011 or practically year 2012. this condominium was already sold-out (almost) late last year pa. They are stilling digging a hole. Where's the money now? hmmmmm.... King tubaga ko. hehe

Henz
Registered User
UPDATE AS OF FEB. 9, 2010






redjieredz

Update.... As of May 19, 2010







More...




June 2nd, 2010, 01:06 PM #479
rustyboiM-055-1M0

According to the recent photo updates:
Apr. 01, 2010 - 1st floor
Apr. 22, 2010 - 2nd floor
May 07, 2010 - 3rd floor
May 19, 2010 - 4th floor
June 02, 2010 - 5th floor
__________________

July 19th, 2010, 01:32 PM #494
redjieredzGo for Federalism

Update



redjieredz

Aerial View
image hosted on flickr


July 23rd, 2010, 08:57 AM #500
Ejames

image hosted on flickr

This post has been edited by David_LivinginTalisay: 01 August 2010 - 05:54 PM