[Kaku]

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just curious about something...

According to the U.S. State Department's 2007 figures the number of permanent U.S. residents in the Philippines is approximately 105,000 (250,000 total including visitors and temporary residents). This number hasn't substantially increased for several years. Why? Could it be people are either moving to other countries, returning home or just dying? Since I haven't seen many deaths reported, I assume the former. If the Philippines were the ideal retirement location, the U.S. expat population should be growing in proportion to the total number of U.S. retirees. It doesn't appear to be happening. I don't have any explanations other than a word of caution. Clearly making the adjustment to living in the Philippines must not be as easy as we might imagine.

[ayala]

Are You Sure The Philippines Is The Right Place For You? Yes,but we also travel back to the USA and also Costa Rica.

Kaku, on 05 November 2009 - 02:43 AM, said:

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just curious about something...

According to the U.S. State Department's 2007 figures the number of permanent U.S. residents in the Philippines is approximately 105,000 (250,000 total including visitors and temporary residents). This number hasn't substantially increased for several years. Why? Could it be people are either moving to other countries, returning home or just dying? Since I haven't seen many deaths reported, I assume the former. If the Philippines were the ideal retirement location, the U.S. expat population should be growing in proportion to the total number of U.S. retirees. It doesn't appear to be happening. I don't have any explanations other than a word of caution. Clearly making the adjustment to living in the Philippines must not be as easy as we might imagine.

[HTM]

"Are You Sure The Philippines Is The Right Place For You?"

No!

[fredanna]

We recently visited some fil-am couples and there have been others who have moved back to the USA after 5 yrs of living there in the Phils.
Reasons were unknown. Either just couldn't hack the lifestyle or the weather.
Not good news for me to hear as, I think it would be the only place to retire and live comfortable in a paid off house. I won't be able to live that long to see that happen here for me/us

Fred

[Cary]

Fred you make a good point here, and the only ones that can answer it is ourselves. Some of us will make it and others wont and the reasons will vary. The only thing that we can do is try because if we don't we will never know. From the posts I've read in other forums is that we need to really think it out because its not an easy move. And after the move we have to work to make it work for us.

fredanna, on 04 November 2009 - 12:45 PM, said:

We recently visited some fil-am couples and there have been others who have moved back to the USA after 5 yrs of living there in the Phils.
Reasons were unknown. Either just couldn't hack the lifestyle or the weather.
Not good news for me to hear as, I think it would be the only place to retire and live comfortable in a paid off house. I won't be able to live that long to see that happen here for me/us

Fred

This post has been edited by Cary: 05 November 2009 - 05:51 AM

[WorldlyPatriot]

Kaku, on 05 November 2009 - 02:43 AM, said:

Clearly making the adjustment to living in the Philippines must not be as easy as we might imagine.

Exactly! Adjusting is difficult for many, and adapting to life here can be a MAJOR challenge.

The reasons for expats departing after moving to "paradise" are varied, but the most common I've experienced are:

- Inability to adapt to:

-- RP Culture, to include inability to accept corruption as society's "norm," pervasive dishonesty, constantly being overcharged for goods and services, constant attempted scams, and expats often being viewed as a "walking ATM machine."
-- Heat / humidity / typhoons
-- Massive poverty
-- Infrastructure deficiencies of a developing nation

- Failures in relationships
- Developing a chronic health problem (often alcohol abuse-related), and the best treatment option is returning to Western medicine.
- Victim of crime
- Financial problems (resulting from declining value of dollar, failing to manage money on a budget, business failure)
- Unable to cope with being fully retired (i.e., need to continue working to feel relevant and making a contribution to mankind)

THE BOTTOM LINE: Before committing 100% to RP, try it for a year or two, and have an alternate plan that will allow you to return to your home country if you are unable to adapt. DO NOT take this decision lightly! Nobody really knows what they're getting in to until they are here and experiencing the trials, tribulations, and virtues of RP life on a DAILY basis!

[Cary]

Correct.

WorldlyPatriot, on 04 November 2009 - 02:01 PM, said:

Exactly! Adjusting is difficult for many, and adapting to life here can be a MAJOR challenge.

The reasons for expats departing after moving to "paradise" are varied, but the most common I've experienced are:

- Inability to adapt to:

-- RP Culture, to include inability to accept corruption as society's "norm," pervasive dishonesty, constantly being overcharged for goods and services, constant attempted scams, and expats often being viewed as a "walking ATM machine."
-- Heat / humidity / typhoons
-- Massive poverty
-- Infrastructure deficiencies of a developing nation

- Failures in relationships
- Developing a chronic health problem (often alcohol abuse-related), and the best treatment option is returning to Western medicine.
- Victim of crime
- Financial problems (resulting from declining value of dollar, failing to manage money on a budget, business failure)
- Unable to cope with being fully retired (i.e., need to continue working to feel relevant and making a contribution to mankind)

THE BOTTOM LINE: Before committing 100% to RP, try it for a year or two, and have an alternate plan that will allow you to return to your home country if you are unable to adapt. DO NOT take this decision lightly! Nobody really knows what they're getting in to until they are here and experiencing the trials, tribulations, and virtues of RP life on a DAILY basis!

[On-in-2]

WorldlyPatriot, on 04 November 2009 - 05:01 PM, said:

Exactly! Adjusting is difficult for many, and adapting to life here can be a MAJOR challenge.

The reasons for expats departing after moving to "paradise" are varied, but the most common I've experienced are:

- Inability to adapt to:

-- RP Culture, to include inability to accept corruption as society's "norm," pervasive dishonesty, constantly being overcharged for goods and services, constant attempted scams, and expats often being viewed as a "walking ATM machine."
-- Heat / humidity / typhoons
-- Massive poverty
-- Infrastructure deficiencies of a developing nation

- Failures in relationships
- Developing a chronic health problem (often alcohol abuse-related), and the best treatment option is returning to Western medicine.
- Victim of crime
- Financial problems (resulting from declining value of dollar, failing to manage money on a budget, business failure)
- Unable to cope with being fully retired (i.e., need to continue working to feel relevant and making a contribution to mankind)

THE BOTTOM LINE: Before committing 100% to RP, try it for a year or two, and have an alternate plan that will allow you to return to your home country if you are unable to adapt. DO NOT take this decision lightly! Nobody really knows what they're getting in to until they are here and experiencing the trials, tribulations, and virtues of RP life on a DAILY basis!

Thanks for the very well summarized post!

But also for the Sagan quotes. He was a great man.


Pete of New Hampshire

[On-in-2]

WorldlyPatriot, on 04 November 2009 - 05:01 PM, said:

Exactly! Adjusting is difficult for many, and adapting to life here can be a MAJOR challenge.

The reasons for expats departing after moving to "paradise" are varied, but the most common I've experienced are:

- Inability to adapt to:

--[snip]--

--Can't keep any JD in the house, bcoz Paul keeps coming over and drinking it all!

Pete of New Hampshire

[Mik]

After ObamaCare becomes law and expensive rationed health care prevails, you will see more US retirees coming here for affordable no-wait treatment.


.

[robert51]

For me its just burn out... i am getting an IR-1 visa to send my wife to the US and get her green card, we will most likely get a cheap condo in reno nv and spend time in both places till we see which place is best for us... I will keep my house here for a while especially till the SRP has a super mall which will help in prices for the South side, and we bought some land up in the mountains and its a long process to get title...

[Cary]

Morey you are right on. Already in my state California they actually had on the local news that for the first time ever they are seeing a sizeable number of illegals going back to Mexico. And in New York about a week ago, they said that a number of New Yorkers have left. What do NY and CA have in common? They are the two highest taxed states and with Obamacare, it will rise even more.

M.Morey, on 04 November 2009 - 04:14 PM, said:

After ObamaCare becomes law and expensive rationed health care prevails, you will see more US retirees coming here for affordable no-wait treatment.


.

[Jack_be_nimble]

M.Morey, on 04 November 2009 - 07:14 PM, said:

After ObamaCare becomes law and expensive rationed health care prevails, you will see more US retirees coming here for affordable no-wait treatment.


.

Yup, National Health care formula;;;; Congress + Phama lobbyists + Ins co. lobbyists etc etc = expensive disaster!!!

[bret]

M.Morey, on 05 November 2009 - 08:14 AM, said:

After ObamaCare becomes law and expensive rationed health care prevails, you will see more US retirees coming here for affordable no-wait treatment.


.

That's only if you have enough money left after the Communists (I mean Democrats) have taken their "share".

[Nomad]

Jack_be_nimble, on 05 November 2009 - 10:48 AM, said:

Yup, National Health care formula;;;; Congress + Phama lobbyists + Ins co. lobbyists etc etc = expensive disaster!!!

We can all point the finger at Obama, but my take on this is that the U.S. economy just plain sucks! It's, for the time being, going down the tubes and Obama nor anyone else is going to be able to improve health care while that's happening. The unemployment rate is going to continue to skyrocket according to all economists reckoning until at least 2011; although my opinion is that they're whistling dixie to this estimate and that it will continue for much longer. With an ever increasing amount of people out of work and no confidence in the economy, means less purchasing power and less taxes for the government. Any promises handed out by Obama in regards to improving health care might as well be written on water.

This post has been edited by Nomad: 05 November 2009 - 10:24 AM

[Cary]

Bret..

bret, on 04 November 2009 - 05:52 PM, said:

That's only if you have enough money left after the Communists (I mean Democrats) have taken their "share".

[Cary]

Nomad, you make very good solid points in that nothing, let alone health care will be truly fixed while the overall economy suffers. And I truly believe that President Obama means well, I really do. But just as Morey and Bret have pointed out, the way that Obama is doing it, raising taxes and making a new social welfare program will drive many to leave and come to places like the Philippines. I think he needs to focus on the economy, work on things that are broken in health care, and like you said around late 2010/11 maybe the economists are wrong, but hopefully not.

Nomad, on 04 November 2009 - 06:18 PM, said:

We can all point the finger at Obama, but my take on this is that the U.S. economy just plain sucks! It's, for the time being, going down the tubes and Obama nor anyone else is going to be able to improve health care while that's happening. The unemployment rate is going to continue to skyrocket according to all economists reckoning until at least 2011; although my opinion is that they're whistling dixie to this estimate and that it will continue for much longer. With an ever increasing amount of people out of work and no confidence in the economy, means less purchasing power and less taxes for the government. Any promises handed out by Obama in regards to improving health care might as well be written on water.

[bret]

Cary, on 05 November 2009 - 10:35 AM, said:

But just as Morey and Bret have pointed out, the way that Obama is doing it, raising taxes and making a new social welfare program will drive many to leave and come to places like the Philippines.

You got that right!

That's one of the main reasons I am leaving the US and retiring in the Fils. I have other reasons, but that is in the top five.

What a time to create another socialist program paid for on the backs of the working man or woman.

I could have gone to Canada, but too cold most of the time. Could have gone to Mexico, but too many Mexicans. Europe is expensive. Southern hemisphere just seems "upside down" to me, being raised "right side up" all my life. Not sure I could get used to seeing my toiled "flush" the wrong way.

That leaves Asia.

So, where would an English speaking, Christian, white boy retire in Asia that's cheap enough to live comfortably on a semi-fixed income? Hmmmm...where indeed.

[OldSchool]

What will suck is that the US will work to keep the dollar low as long as possible. The PI got spoilt on big money from Koreans, and the Koreans will probably be back spending before we do.

[Admin]

This topic is a primary reason as to why this forum exists.

For years now, the most important advice I have given regarding moving here from any western country, is to come here and "try it on for size". You will never see me trying to convince anyone to liquidate their entire lives in the west, encouraging them to move here, especially if they have never visited the Philippines. No one has the right to do that. But, I have seen others who own Philippines related sites who did exactly that. They encourage people to sell everything they have, pack their bags and come here to live. Of course, anyone who falls for such advice and actually buys into it, is naive and ignorant.

However, I am glad to see that people are doing more research on the Philippines, and elsewhere in the world, prior to making their first trip, especially Americans. We (Americans) aren't known for our world travels and many are quite ignorant of the "real" world around us. (Ask any American to describe what the Canadian Flag looks like. Most will not be able to tell you.) We also believe too much of what the liberal news media throws at us. Even those from other countries, people who do travel much more than we, like the Scandinavians and Europeans for example, are doing more research online before taking their first trip. With the internet as it has become today, we (those of us on the ground here) can actually offer newbies the information they seek. We can share with them our personal experiences, which will help them make their decisions for retirement and/or relocation much easier.

But, even with all the planning we can do, living in the Philippines isn't for everyone. I have seen many guys come and go. Some went back because they didn't want to live on a level beneath what they were accustomed to, after the Philippine Piso gained against the US Dollar. Others found they couldn't deal with a culture that was so different from their own. Logic processes... I won't even go there. More foreigners couldn't handle the heat as they thought they could. Other people couldn't learn how to play the game here. Another reason I have seen people leave here for, was to take a child to the west so he or she could get a better education. Even that is suspect in my mind, because I don't know how "good" educational institutions are in the west, nowadays. Anyway, for whatever reason(s), these various foreigners packed their toys, boarded a plane on the Mactan-Cebu International Airport tarmac, and waved "bye bye" to Cebu, and to us, forever.

So be it. If you can't hack living here, go home. As a foreigner you always have that choice. This isn't a negative reflection on anyone, as some can deal with it while others can't. I won't fault anyone for giving up and going home. If it isn't your cup of tuba, drink something else. For me, however, it's a different story.

I came to the Philippines to stay permanently very early on in this decade. I came with the attitude that I was going to do what it took to live here, hands down. I would be the one who would adapt and adjust. I would be the one who would change. I would be the one who would accept the Filipino culture as my own, for the most part anyway. I come from parents who were tough and could handle anything that came their way. I see no reason to be anything different.

[Cary]

Sadly yes because Obama believes in giving the money that I have to get up and go work for and then give it others who are not working. Now I don't mind those who because of the economy don't have a job, its the other guys who still don't want to work that a large part of my check goes too

OldSchool, on 04 November 2009 - 07:39 PM, said:

What will suck is that the US will work to keep the dollar low as long as possible. The PI got spoilt on big money from Koreans, and the Koreans will probably be back spending before we do.

[robert51]

yes its sucks that the economy in the US is bad and its not a good thing for all the unemployment but and there is always a but... If things were not the way they are i could not afford to get a condo in reno and still keep my house here so when you get lemons make lemonaid...

[fredanna]

This is a very good thread and some great responses, thank you.
I'm printing all this and it goes in the Phils Folder for my future thoughts about our move.
Many many things to consider. Trial runs are mandatory!

I had a thought to share, and was wondering if some folks left the Phils because of the poverty over there? There's rich and poor. No middle class.
We're planning a move where my wife's parents are located. Our dream house and one other fairly new house would be amongst the typical filipino home. Either a wooden shack or some half-planned unfinished cinder block (hollow block) building with a tin roof. Usually no ceilings to shield from the heat of the tin roof, a stand-fan, a "ref", a 20" TV, and a couple of flourescent lights.....maybe running water and a CR with half the toilet missing.
And we'll be in this two story house with A/C and hot and cold running water and 3-4 bathrooms with real toilets.
I really think mama and papa would not want to live with us coz it would look like they stepped ahead of the others in their neighborhood.

Fred

This post has been edited by fredanna: 06 November 2009 - 12:32 AM

[Kaku]

I want to thank everyone for taking the time to share their thoughts. I've either lived in or visited several countries in Latin America so I have an understanding of the pressures poverty and lack of infrastructure can impose on one's well being.

As for those who are worried about the U.S., fear not the government's solution to the national deficit is devaluation of the dollar. Countries like the Philippines who are heavily dependent upon OFW remittances will have no choice but to let their currencies float and settle where they may. I think U.S. expats should be prepared for 20 pesos to the dollar sometime in the not too distant future (a few years, perhaps?). The dollar will contiue to fall until the U.S. balance of trade levels out. Sooner or later it will be cheaper to manufacture in the USA than to import.

[Terry]

Admin:

"I came to the Philippines to stay permanently very early on in this decade. I came with the attitude that I was going to do what it took to live here, hands down. I would be the one who would adapt and adjust. I would be the one who would change. I would be the one who would accept the Filipino culture as my own, for the most part anyway." Is the BEST advise I've EVER heard. Attitude is EVERYTHING in life. As for specifics, it has been my experience that the only REAL difference between PI and ALL other places is that the PI just don't care to hide it. As I was once told by a friend in NY, "You can't claim to be from NY unless you've been mugged at least twice".